To think the midwife shouldn't make DH feel unwelcome at NHS Parentcraft Classes?

[YanknCock]

I told the midwife several weeks ago that DH and I were going to attend NCT antenatal classes. Basically she slagged them off saying 'they'll make you feel really bad about yourself if you don't give birth on just a puff of gas and air' and 'you should come to NHS Parentcraft Classes instead, because it will be tailored to the X hospital and not just general information like NCT gives'. Have ignored her and booked the NCT classes anyway, as we are happy to go to both (it's our first and we want as much information as possible).

So yesterday at my 28 week appointment I asked about Parentcraft classes and got on the list for four sessions in July. They are in the middle of the day during the week, and I turned to DH and said 'that shouldn't be a problem for you right?' as his work is very flexible. Midwife made this sort of disapproving sound and said 'Now I'm not trying to put you off or anything, and partners are welcome, BUT we do worry the group may not "gel" if there's a partner there, or you two might just focus on each other, so why don't you just plan on the first one and we'll see how it goes?'

I can't quite get the tone of it in writing, but DH and I both agreed after that despite what was actually said, she DID NOT want him there at all and was doing her best to let him know.

So am I being completely looney to think that my husband, birth partner, and new father-to-be should be welcomed with open arms to something like this? Is it unrealistic to think that it doesn't matter how I 'gel' with complete strangers, that I'm there for information that a birth partner/new father would need as well?

Did other partners attend NHS parentcraft classes, or did you go by yourself?

It will vary from one class to another, but your midwife may be right about one thing, the NCT classes. Mine was one of those. However, I still found them useful and wasn't put off. I was a bit of an annoyance to our tutor, I think, as I knew well in advance I was having a planned C section for medical reasons, so she could hardly say anything to me about how wrong a choice it was! It also helped to remind other people there that with the best will in the world, sometimes these things can't be avoided and it's good to be prepared for that eventuality too.

My DH and I had two things we wanted to get out of ante-natal classes:

• To learn about being parents and getting through the birth as well as possible
• To meet other first-time parents that we'd have things in common with

Either NHS or NCT might have done for the first one, but as the NHS classes only ran during office hours and DH couldn't have attended, they were out anyway. But for the second aim, we thought the NCT classes would work a lot better for us as they would include people in a similar position to us - ie quite career-minded, Guardian-reading types - that we might get on well with. This has proved to be true, and now us mums from that group are meeting every week for tea and cake, which is really keeping all of our spirits up. Don't underestimate the value of peer support, especially if not many of your current friends have kids. The NCT classes are more likely to provide that, plus info, and your partner will be welcome.

Having said all that, YANBU and your partner really should be welcome. I would say that I think now is the time to be calm but assertive with this midwife to get what you want, as it will only get harder later and it will be very difficult indeed to be effectively assertive for the first time (and at all!) in the delivery room. I strongly agree with ABetaDad on this - it it so important to have a birth partner who will argue for what you want if it's necessary. I really would consider being clear about your wishes to this midwife now, and maybe she will correctly decide that it's best not to mess you about as you and your DH mean business and will complain yourselves if she is difficult!

traceybath - I would say a tour of the hospital & delivery suite as part of NCT classes is very unusual? did you mean NHS? Didn't think the NCT would be allowed to tour a delivery suite.

To add following were offered by our NHS:

One two-hour breastfeeding talk
One two-hour talk on labour/delivery/pain relief and a tour of the delivery suite and the maternity unit.

Not much is it?!

DH/DPs came to the talk & tour but not the breastfeeding talk.

Re what you get out of classes, the NHS talk was a (very good) concise version of what took a whole day's pondering including group work, flipcharts and role play at the NCT class. TBH we didn't learn anything new at the NCT, we went primarily to meet people - I panicked that would not meet anyone else with a baby otherwise, I was totally wrong as there are loads and loads of opportunities to meet other mums through organised free groups if you live in a typical surburban area, maybe it's different in more remote locations of course.

Wish I had saved my £140 on the NCT classes as we only met up once afterwards and have never heard from them again! Although they were all nice people there was no gelling at all and the group dynamics were all wrong.

Plus I did find that the NHS talk gave clear, concise info regarding pain relief and exactly how and when it is administered. My DH came out of the talk and tour and said "I'm ready to go into action now".

It was definitely nct as i didn't do the nhs classes.

Our nct teacher was fab and had a very good relationship with many of the midwifes at my local hospital.

I ended up having a c-section and we'd role-played this in our class which was useful as prepared me for all the people.

Our teacher was also very laidback as to what choices made, eg breast/bottle, epidurals etc.

I guess we were lucky.

I know that locally to me though the nhs are cutting right back on ante-natal classes which is very sad.

whilst she was out of order for saying all that, i agree with everything she said

My NCT teacher was just as she described. Wish I'd been able to make the one at the hospital as the NCT class told me nothing but negatives about hospital births (which was helpful since that's what I was planning

we're pretty friendly and have no prob mixing with people normally but at both our antenatal class and the breasfeeding class there was a split down the middle (how sad and school yard is that) between the people there on their own and the couples. We tried to chat to everyone but the people sans partners grouped up from the start and it was hard

I only went to the NHS ones and about half the mums-to-be there had partners with them.
It was nice for the partners actually. They can be scared about what's going to happen, and like to have some knowledge.
YANBU
I'm surprised at that attitude - MWs have all been welcoming of partners in the experiences I've had.

My husband did attend the hospital ante-natal classes but he turned up late to both and (to my consternation) seemed to be the only man still in a suit. The others were clearly just living off their lottery winnings. I would have been horrified if he'd taken the day off work to attend an ante-natal class. All you do is a lot of pretend panting and eating biscuits. I find men who come along to classes held during the day deeply unsexy. Which is good as it would be mortifying to have to talk about episiotomies in front of anyone I might want to have an affair with.

I teach NCT classes. I encourage parents to 'double up' and do our local NHS classes if they've got time, but they generally come back saying the NHS classes were a waste of time and didn't teach them anything they hadn't already done with me. I know my local hospital very well (I'm a user representative on the MSLC, have worked at the hospital and have given birth there myself) so my classes are very geared up to help local women.

I also schedule 3 hours on my course for talking about pharmacological pain relief - plenty of time for really useful discussion .

Hope you and your partner enjoy your NCT classes and get a good group!

Wow traceybath, that's unusual and brilliant that the NCT gets on so well with your local hospital.

Also great that you actually role-played a CS in your NCT class - the topic was conspicuously avoided in ours (and I ended up having a emergency CS due to baby being impacted, ie completely stuck). It is just as well that the NHS class had covered it.

I was amazed when I found out there was only the one NHS talk and tour as I thought you got a six-week set of classes and taught how to breathe etc.

Neither the NHS nor NCT class taught us how to breathe or why controlled breathing is important! Was quite disappointed. It's only through watching baby programmes recently that the relevance of breathing has come to light, ie not to make the birth sound more dramatic but to control your pushes to avoid tearing yourself....

I didn't attend NCT classes because I didn't want to meet a load of muesli-munching, Guardian reading parents-to-be. Too PC for words, though I understand not all NCT members these days eat their placentas.

"Wow traceybath, that's unusual and brilliant that the NCT gets on so well with your local hospital."

It's not unusual at all. We do an early pregnancy evening every month at our local hospital. NCT teachers also teach NHS classes at UCH, St Georges and Birmingham Women's hospital. A good number of NCT teachers are also midwives or sit as user representatives on MSLC's.

RE: teaching breathing - some teachers do loads, some do hardly anything.

messalina - LOL sorry, I have just got to ask this question:

"I find men who come along to classes held during the day deeply unsexy"

Were you still on the look out for something better than DH then? It just seems a tad late in the game to be eyeing the bench for a late substitution.

[No offence intended of course]

No, clearly I wasn't because even if Brad Pitt turned up to an ante-natal class during the day to rub his partner's bump smugly, I would not fancy him. My husband is very much a new man in many ways and a superb father. But he is still a bloke. We spent most of the evening ante-natal classes passing notes about which couple were most likely to be related to one another and which one we'd least like to be paired up with at a swingers party. You can't take these things too seriously, and men that do are unsexy.

I am glad I didn't go at all then!

crosseyedandpainless - it's certainly unusual in my experience and that of my friends. There was no suggestion of a hospital tour or role play of a CS from my NCT class hence I find traceybath's experience unusual to me (but am very impressed as of course I would have liked the same). Obviously it's not unusual for you though.

However, given that as you say "RE: teaching breathing - some teachers do loads, some do hardly anything" it proves that there are definitely variations in terms of content and style in NCT classes.

As I said, I didn't learn anything different in the NCT class that wasn't covered in the two-hour talk & tour on the NHS but then, the information was given in a concise format and didn't rely on a large amount of flip-chart group work like the NCT class. That is just my experience though.

YANBU

DH came to all my antenatal appointments scans and parentcraft classes and we often got comments ("we don't often see the dads" ) or he was ignored altogether. I loved having him there. When I went into labour he knew what was going on, timed contractions, reminded me to breath slowly etc. I'd have hated to have had to explain it all to him either after the classes or while I was contracting!

Anyway, Parentcraft was rubbish. They divided us into groups and gave each group a question to answer. We got one about the effects of pethidine. We then had to feedback to the room and at the very end the midwife told us if we were right. I was 8 months pg at the time and have no idea if I remembered the crap the group came up with or the truth from the midwife. It felt like a waste of time. We skipped the last one and went for a curry instead

YANBU! She thinks the group "may not gel"? is thre group or your DH going to be your birth partner?

I think it does not really matter how geled the group is, you are not going there for a coffee morning but to get an idea (vague one though) of what might happen on the big day if it is your first baby.

FWIW I do not remember much about those classes but I am certain there was more than one dad.

In our parentcraft classes we played pass the parcel and had to fish out from a bag various instruments of torture that wouldn't have looked out of place in Guantanomo and say what we thought they were for. That was quite fun. The best bit though was when we went round the maternity ward and some naughty teenage mother saw all us boring middle-class mothers-to-be and said loudly about labour "Just don't do it. It's terrible." Good on her.