to wonder if assuming learning difficulties and mh issues = vulnerability is insulting?

[FeelMuchBrighterToday]

does that title even make sense?

Makes sense to me, and no, I don't think it's at all insulting to bear in mind that people with LD etc or MH conditions may need extra help/support/advice/info from time to time, or may not be able to cope with all things as well as everyone else can at all times.

But... part of respecting everyone is to always try to find out what they can or can't do, rather than just assume it AND act on it without some sort of check.

I had a great email from someone who knew I'm ASD and who wrote to her colleagues to say that no way could I possibly understand words like 'confidential', so it must be ok for them to copy all my stuff to everyone without asking me, for example. That assumed something that turned out not to be true. But she was right that I can be very vulnerable indeed in some things - just not that.

So, a lack of guesswork and a maximum of finding out, all combined with respect. That'd do for people, I'd say?

Well I understood it but then I read the other thread.

I'd say that of course you are more vulnerable if you have learning difficulties.

If your LD is slight then you may only be slightly vulnerable, but it clearly is a disadvantage.

I see what you mean, but think it applies to just about every group at various times and in different ways.

Maybe bearing in mind that some people are likely to need increased levels of some type of support now and then is just not the same thing as assuming a sort of global vulnerability?

I think it's a good thing to bear in mind, personally. Especially if the learning/social difficulties mean the person can become het up and aggressive under stress. If people don't understand the vulnerability of someone in that situation they could get aggressive back and just inflame the situation. There are so many situations where the police arrive at some sort of altercation in a shop, for example, and cart the person off. I hope that nowadays at least they go on to get the person some help rather than applying the Gene Hunt treatment.

wave of inappropriate horn for Gene Hunt

Yup, BitofFun, if it is Asperger syndrome, you have to do the exact opposite of what you'd do for someone who was upset and over-aggressive because they were looking for a fight.

I dont feel its insulting but I dont have LDS

My son does and I do feel it makes him more vunerable to lots of things. His birth mum has it it definately made her more vunerable to abuse from men who targeted her because she had LD.

Children with LD are more vunerable to abuse [than their peers] because they are less able to tell.

The parents with LD I have supported were much more vunerable to loosing their children to the care system because they had less access to information on parenting and the courts, their rights etc. They also found it more difficult to follow instructions and access support.

BUT it very much depends on the LD doesnt it? I dont think dyslexia would make you a more vunerable person but processing disorders and development delay would wouldnt it?

It IS insulting to suggest that ALL adults with LD are automatically vunerable and incapable of keeping themselves safe. But I do think that generally adults with LD are more at risk.

Having LD doesnt = stupid IMO/IME

People with a LD/ASD are four times more likely to be bullied than people with a physical disability.

People with Asperger syndrome/HFA (for example) might seem really capable, but many (not all) struggle to recognise people, struggle with high anxiety levels that make everyday living and interacting with people very difficult indeed, struggle with sensory overload from hypersensitive hearing, sight, touch, smell and taste, or may struggle with injuries from being undersensitive to pain. Plenty of us can't understand metaphors or sarcasm. Most of us can't see face expressions or body language, and most can't hear tone of voice. Unimaginable, eh?

For most, no way to tell who's a friend, or how to make a friend. Or how to tell a fraudster from a friend.

40 times more likely to have no friends at all.

Only 13 out of 100 are even in full time work because of the lack of understanding and the myths about us and the lack of help available for us. Most of these are underpaid or in work they hate, but it's all they can get.

Most are never able to live an independent life at the moment.

Many people are unable to make sense of difficult documents, because our brains may only accept one meaning for one word.

So...Hugely vulnerable in all sorts of ways. But still people, still worthy of as much respect as everyone else and the same chance of a good quality of life as everyone else.

Speaking solely for myself, it is SUCH a relief when people ask me if I need help. I never mind it.

Its not insulting.

It is a fact that people with MH issues or LD are at greater risk of vulnerability.

I cant understand why that would be seen as 'insulting'?

those stats are grim

Depends on the individual.

Making assumptions like that about individuals, irrespective of what group stats may say, is patronising.

Some people who have learning disabilites, physical disabilities can be ruthless, mean, nasty, bullying and whathaveyou just as well as people without.

As far as I am aware this is about another thread and it is an individual, who no-one knows personally, being discussed.

I don't like to think that people might assume I am somehow more vulnerable to exploitation, or less able to manage stress, than those of my peers who don't have (in my case a mental health) a comparable condition. (Thinking specifically about the stuff discussed on the Susan Boyle thread.)

Obviously there are situations/circumstances in which I'm at greater risk than some people, some things that I need to have in place and some that I need to avoid to reduce to risk of being ill; but then everyone's got something similar - some groups more vulnerable to hate crimes than others, some people are genetically predisposed to addictions, young men are vulnerable to suicide and so on.

I don't even know what my point is! and

Lovelytinofspam, yes, people with LD or ASD or MH conditions or whatever else are indeed human being with personalities and some are nice and some aren't. But it's still fair to say that some (not all) really are more vulnerable in some (not all) situations and that people in general need to be mindful of it. Always ask, rather than assume, yes.

I'm certainly more vulnerable to exploitation, and honest enough to admit it.

I wasn't saying anything else amber.

I was going to post something along the same lines but got sidetracked. ie to be mindful that people can be vulnerable, but not to assume that they will be.

Also agree with feelmuchbrightertoday that all sorts of groups are vulnerable due to various reasons, and that the same considerations should apply to them.