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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to lie to tax credits?

99 replies

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 28/05/2009 12:27

Aaarrgh major freak out!

Am on maternity leave. Gave work a return date at the end of august (taking full year) as I assumed 1) DH would be able to find work 2)things would 'be ok' and 3) I'd get income support if DH wasn't working. Just got last month's mat pay.

So...not entitled to IS as DH lives with me. BUT he's not entitled to claim JSA due to visa conditions. So we're high and dry.

DH cannot find more than 2 days a week work. He's not english so no work experience in this country apart from cleaning and labouring with agencies - which has seriously dropped since the recession. He tries - can't do driving work as international license, he's a favourite at the building agencies as is reliable and own transport so he gets first pick - but still hardly any work.

Can't go back earlier as they have someone on a temp contract until I go back.

Have applied for JSA and called tax credits at suggestion of IS people. Not hopeful I'll get JSA as am 'employed' but we'll see. TAX CREDITS decided they have to take away my working element as I'm no longer getting SMP. So calling them has LOST me £50 a week. Even if I get JSA will be £65 a week so only just more than I've lost.

Realised my mistake and tried to take it back but no go - she'd already put it in system. Sooooo.....do I lie about my return date? Say I've gone back in a month? (I get 4 weeks extra WTC so it's only 2 months I've lost) and pay it back next year when I'm working and hopefully DH is too?

How dishonest is that? It's not stealing as I'll have to pay it back. WWYD?

OP posts:
MrsBonJovi · 28/05/2009 13:21

It may help your JSA claim if you apply to return to work early and they give you a refusal letter. You can then make yourself available for work until then. BTW getting WTC isnt likely to benefit you if you are award JSA as if you get the income based one it is taken into account. Only if you get contribution based you would not have it taken into account.

Your partner would need to be working 30hrs per week or more to get WTC...and his visa would need to show he has recourse to public funds.

BradfordMum · 28/05/2009 13:21

My sil took an English driving test.
That may help

MrsBonJovi · 28/05/2009 13:23

expat...WTC is not longer paid through wages its paid straight into account.

expatinscotland · 28/05/2009 13:23

You're only allowed to drive on a non-UK/EU or EEA license for one year.

emmabemmasmom · 28/05/2009 13:25

kat2907 I can totally relate to what you are going through. Being American and having had the same Visa your DH had, I know how hard it can be. When I moved here, I could not find work either and then fell pregnant and nobody would hire me! DH lost his job and we had to get JSA. They made us apply as a married couple even though I told them I couldn't apply. It took 3 months for them to sort it out and by that time DH found work again. During that 3 months we had nothing and were living on cereal...had to borrow money from family. He was only awarded a single person allowance of £45 a week...which we didn't take anyway since he found work by then. Also, when I finally started working with an agency WTC wanted to know my wages to lower our payments, but they would not help with childcare as it was ME working and ME who had the Visa.

It is very hard having a partner on a Visa. I got my ILR in March and feel so much more relief knowing that if something bad happenes we would be ok.

Looks like you only have a month or 2 to try and make ends meet. Call CAB and see what they say. I would not lie as that is just my opinion but there has to be some help out there for you. I would also consider going back early even if that means the other person is out of work for a bit. It won't be easy but you can do it

expatinscotland · 28/05/2009 13:26

ah, right, mrs.

wouldn't lie, i really wouldn't. because they don't care if you're going to pay it back.

that's why when you renew annually there's that blurb before you sign that says if you're deliberately falsifying or being untruthful it's a crime.

and how on earth can you claim JSA when you're on mat leave and you're employed?

Job.Seekers.Allowance.

that means you are unemployed and available for work.

he might be able to claim contribution-based JSA IF he has been paying full NI.

Original poster
ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 28/05/2009 13:26

WTC has been paid directly into my bank. I agree expat - I'm not trying to get anything for him, just what I would get if he wasn't here, IYSWIM. I won't say he's moved out - that would be wrong and also crazy.

I know about the cost of the visa and the test - my parents will help with that.

He will take a driving test at some point but at £50 for the provisional, £20 per lesson and £100 for the test, it's not something we can manage right now.

OP posts:
Journey · 28/05/2009 13:27

Kat2907 - Like Cornflake says you are entitled to change your mind regarding you return to work date. You need to give 8 weeks notice which obviousy doesn't help you much. However, although the law says that employers can insist on this 8 weeks notice, if you have a sympathetic employer perhaps they may take you back sooner than this. You need to phone your HR dept. I hope they are understanding to your needs. I appreciate that you know your cover but you have your own family to think about so please put your needs first.

Bradfordmum - it is fortunate that things have worked out for you SIL, however, I think implying that Kat2907 DH isn't making an effort is very insensitive. She needs constructive help at them moment not a put down.

expatinscotland · 28/05/2009 13:27

you only need to be working 16 hours/week to claim WTC.

but you do need to have ILR/non-restrictive visa (or be EU/EEA national).

Original poster
ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 28/05/2009 13:28

I know!!!!! I'm not a job seeker, unless I say I'm not going back...more lying. But that was the advice of the income support peeps.

OP posts:
CarGirl · 28/05/2009 13:28

I would speak to the HR dept and gives them the 8 weeks notice. The person doing the cover may be out of work for a month but if she then gets the other cover job it can be viewed as an extended holiday. Sorry it's really not your problem you need to be able to live.

StewieGriffinsMom · 28/05/2009 13:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

expatinscotland · 28/05/2009 13:32

'He will take a driving test at some point but at £50 for the provisional, £20 per lesson and £100 for the test, it's not something we can manage right now.'

Kat, I'm sorry, but his driving is illegal. If he gets pulled over he will be in pretty big trouble and yes, the HO is clamping down on people who do this. It's a criminal offense.

Yes, it's expensive to get a UK license, that is why immigrants from non EU/EEA nations are generously given a year to pass.

Commonwealth nationals can swap their license for a UK one for a nominal fee and not have to sit the UK exams.

If he is Commonwealth he can trade in.

But it is illegal for him to drive after one year on another license and if he is carrying insurance it will not cover him or the other party in an accident because they will find out he is driving illegally.

CarGirl · 28/05/2009 13:34

Kat's husband isn't driving in this country because he isn't covered by insurance, don't panick expat!

Original poster
ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 28/05/2009 13:34

so he can't get WTC. Ok. He can drive on his int license as he renewed it after a year.

I might be able to go back a month early, but actually I have 5 weeks leave to take before April so I will take 2 weeks just before I return, thus sorting the last month/few weeks.

That leaves me with july. I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
MrsBonJovi · 28/05/2009 13:35

Though as couple one of you needed to be working 30hrs per week unless one is incapacited or has caring responsibilties. Obviously wrong...

JSA they may be some legalisation that I am thinking of that entitled you so dont not apply.

Original poster
ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 28/05/2009 13:36

NONONO he IS driving, he has his OWN insurance, he has a valid int license, which he renewed after a year. You just have to renew it, you can only drive for one year until you renew it.

One more question - I can look for work now, as I have no SMP to lose. So I am technically a jobseeker, isn't that right?

OP posts:
Original poster
ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 28/05/2009 13:40

Oh SHIT expat you may be right.....we did NOT know that. Shit. Well that's another problem then.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 28/05/2009 13:43

its benefit fraud.....plain and simple.

up to you what you do. but his visa might be at stake if you lie on a claim...

expatinscotland · 28/05/2009 13:43

An international license? You either have a UK one, an EU/EEA one (in which case you are free to drive in the UK as you will) or one issued by another country.

There's no 'international license' provision for people who are resident in the UK.

here.

The insurance company will still take money, then not pay out in case of an accident.

SuperWasher · 28/05/2009 13:43

Ok I was in a similar situation when we first moved back to UK. Had been working abroad so no entitlement to maternity grants or pay etc.

Go back to jobcentre. They first said I couldn't claim IS due to dh's visa but then later found that I could claim it as long as I claimed as an individual not as a couple(only as long as dh wasn't working though). That was 3 years ago but it could be worth double checking.

Your dh can't get JSA until he has been here 3 years and has permanent residence (Permanent residence is 2 years like you say then another year before you are entitled to benefits). I am assuming his visa says no recourse to public funds on it?

MissSunny · 28/05/2009 13:44

Message withdrawn

MrsBonJovi · 28/05/2009 13:44

20214 A person engaged in remunerative work is not necessarily excluded from JSA or IS.
In certain circumstances a person who is actually in remunerative work may be
treated as not being in remunerative work (see DMG 20464)1.
1 JSA Regs, reg 53; IS (Gen) Regs, reg 6

Sickness, maternity leave, paternity leave, adoption leave and
periods of unauthorised absence

20308 When someone is absent from work due to sickness, paternity leave1, adoption
leave2 or maternity leave3 the DM should decide that they are not in remunerative
work during such absences4. When someone has a period of absence without good
cause the DM should treat such an absence in the same way as proper holidays5
(see DMG 20315).
1 Employment Rights Act 1996, s 80A & 80B; 2 s 75A & 75B; 3 s 71-73; 4 JSA Regs, reg 52(1);
IS (Gen) Regs, reg 5(3A); 5 JSA Regs, reg 52(1); IS (Gen) Regs, reg 5

expatinscotland · 28/05/2009 13:45

I looked into this 'international license' business, Kat, because I'm an immigrant, too.

It doesn't exist. I had to get a UK one as I am here on a residency visa.

The DVLA was very clear on this.

I came on FLR(M), then ILR, then naturalised.

Please sort this out!

It could wind up being dangerous for him so close to ILR, too.

MrsBonJovi · 28/05/2009 13:46

You may be entitled to JSA...so claim...its complicated. Im not a JSA expert...but know its come up for discussion a trillion times in my line of work.

Just apply....give all facts and allow them to make decision. You will of course have to try and be willing to return to work early and ask your employer