... either in our behavior to SIL to cause this reaction, or in thinking this is a shame for SIL and dcs?

[bluegreyeyes]

Apols if this is not really a AIBU - it's my first one - and really am just interested in mn's advice ...

My SIL is a great favorite with my dcs. We live 100 miles away. She is single and has no children: they are her only niece/nephews. She is in her 40s. She is v good at chatting with them, cooking with them, taking them to the cinema, and thoughtful and generous with presents for them. But this is on the rare occasions they see her.

It's really hard to have any time with her. She won't answer the phone and doesn't respond to messages or email. We invite her repeatedly to visit us and she doesn't commit, and doesn't come except for couple of nights at Christmas. If we are in her area (helping my v elderly father and severly disabled brother), and arrange to pop over she is often out when we get there - off shopping or visiting neighbours. When we do arrange to see her, she doesn't invite us to share a meal. This is no problem - we'd just like to see her, especially for the dcs. So we make arrangements to eat with my df and db. But as we're going she'll say "I thought you might be here for a meal so bought some pizza & cake - take it with you".

Dh says she's always been a bit moody. She can do strange things which worry me sometimes - we managed to have a brief holiday with her and her/dh mother 9 years ago when she was still alive. dd was 4 months old. SIL took her for a walk in her pram off across the sands and just kept going for almost 2 hours. dd was crying with hunger for lots of that time. dh explained he wasn't happy when she came back, so she and MIL left the holiday that day becuase "they weren't wanted" .

dcs keep asking when will they see her - it's a major challenge for us to protect their aunt in their eyes and say we don't know. They'd love to go and stay with her. She rarely takes any of her holiday from work - but they would love to have time with her in their school holidays.

We just don't understand what we can do to make the relationship easier. Any bright ideas or view of what we might be doing wrong?

bump

I think you have to accept it for what it is
I wouldnt badger her to see her, let her invite you over
Sometimes you just have to accept that while she may be good with your kids you doesn't want them over in the school holidays

I think YABU.

My siblings don't have the kids in the school holidays.

Why should she take more holiday from work? Maybe she likes her job and her friends and so on.

She has a different lifestyle to you, and I think you are overthinking this and making an issue where there really isn't one.

She sounds a bit "socially awkard" shall we say? So, she doesn't invite you for a meal, but buys in food thinking you might by some unknown process be staying for a meal, then gives you the food as you're leaving, having not actually suggested you stay and eat... It sounds like she'd like to be more social, but doesn't really know how to do it.

I think all you can do is be friendly and give her opportunities to do things, but not expect much out of her.

I think YABU. She sounds like she has a busy life and you can't just think that your children would like to pend time with her in the holidays therefore she should spend time with them.

You are building her up as a person of too much importance in your dc's lives. You shouldn't be 'protecting' her image. Your children should just know that she works and that she likes that and she has a busy life. If they like her so much they should be able to see that other people like her too and want to see her.

It sounds like she is much more important to you than you are too her, and that's OK. Quite often people who do not have children don't think that children and their needs are quite so important as those of us who do have them.

Do you think she's better with older children?

Speaking as a former maiden aunt myself, other people's babies can be a bit of a minefield. If you don't have much experience with babies you might not know that 2 hours is far too long for a walk, and that the baby will be hungry - in the world of the non-baby-owner, they seem to cry pretty much all the time anyway for a bunch of completely inexplicable reasons and she probably thought she was doing you a favour by taking dd off your hands for a couple of hours, and was therefore upset to get a bit of a telling off. Although IMO going home was an overreaction and any bad feeling about that certainly shouldn't last 9 years. But from what you've said, you've had some good times with her since.

What's her social life like? You say she doesn't take much time off work, maybe her job is really demanding? I can't tell from your post whether you feel she's deliberately avoiding you or just that you wish she'd make more time for you in her busy life.

Apart from the strolling off for 2 hours with your child I think perhaps YABU.

Like AMuminScotland says she sounds a bit socially awkward but I don't think it's right to expect her to have your kids in the holidays (or all of you over to stay) and if she's not offering to have you I think you do have to respoect the fact that though she is awfully good with them when she does see them, perhaps beng a hands oon doting auntie the rest of the time just isn't her bag.

It sounds like she is nice and caring, but that there is a bit of a communication gap between you.
Are you always completely clear about what you are expecting out of an encounter?
With the 2 hour pram trip - how do you know that your DD was crying with hunger for lots of the time?
The fact that as a result of the discussions after that your sister and MIL both felt they had to leave the holiday early makes me wonder what was said?
Have you suggested that she might like to have your DCs to stay over the school holidays?

Maybe she'd like to see have your DH to stay in the holidays as he is her brother. I spend quite a lot of time with my sister and go and stay with her on my own.

I think you need to just accept that not everyone is going to think as highly as your children as you do, and that while she may be good with your kids on the few times a year she sees them, on the whole, she's not actually that interested.

I think it's quite common actually for relatives who don't have children of their own to not really see other people's children as that interesting. It's not personal, it's posibly just the way she is.

I think YABU.

As for the walking for two hours bit, I agree with Queenoftheharpies before having DS I would have thought I had done you a great favour keeping the crying baby away for 2 hours! Not everyone has an instinct for these things.

She just doesn't sound that interested, nothing wrong with that at all, she doesn't owe you, your DH or your kids anything.

We have a slightly similar situation with my SIL. She does adore DS but she has him on her terms. Which is perfectly fine with me it isn't her responsibility to keep him happy or even be interested in him at all.

Your kid's are the light of your life I am sure, but they are not at all central to other people's.

I think you have unrealistic expectations. I would never expect my sister who doesn't have kids to take time off work to look after my kids. She has her own friends and social life. Similarly if I want to see her I'll check when is convenient and discuss beforehand what will happen re meals etc. It doesn't sound as though you communicate well together. Her being out if you've arranged to meet sounds odd but that depends on how specific you were about times, I wouldn't stay in all day for a relative who may pop in at some time during the day but isn't sure when. Different if you stay "I'll come at 12 and we can have lunch together if that's convenient, would you prefer to eat at your place or all go out?"
2 hours for a walk isn't long if you're into walking and waiting 2 hours before a meal won't harm a small child, I presume if the baby was that ready for a meal you wouldn't have let her take her out, unless she just took the pram. It sounds as though you maybe overreacted a bit at the baby being hungry rather than just feeding baby and next time agreeing how long a walk you want baby taken for.
We used to go for several hour long walks when our kids were small. We usually went after a meal so 2-3 hours was fine, although if I was taking my brothers baby out I'd check when they wanted me back if we weren't all going. I don't see her behaviour as strange, just the behaviour of someone into long walks and not aware of the needs of small children because she doesn't have any.
I'd arrange more time to see her if you enjoy seeing her, but make sure you agree when you are arriving and leaving and what you are doing about meals.

Oh before I had children I was not remotely interested in my nieces and nephews. When we saw them we enjoyed it, but were not remotely interested in spending entire days with them.
Small children are just not very enticing to the young free and single, I'm afraid. And if you'd had a go at me for trying to look after your child in the past I probably wouldn't be that keen to do it again.

YABU. Would you be happy to see her knowing that she would rather be somewhere else and is only seeing you because she feels obliged to?

Be grateful for the fact that you are on speaking terms and she does play a part in your families life even if it is a smaller part than you would like.

I agree with others that your children probably aren't that high on her list of priorities. Most members of my family who don't have children (as well as the ones that do) are not interested in our DCs. It's sad (for you) but you just have to accept that that is the way it is and she probably doesn't give it a second thought. If you keep raising your expectations (and your DCs) you will be constantly disappointed. Hang around with people who actively want to spend time with you and your DCs instead. Usually friends with DCs of their own, ime.

Thanks everyone. She does have a busy job now. Some v helpful insights especially about difference if you've had dcs or not of your own. Dh and I manage the childcare in the hols between us so, I didn't want to imply she should look after them. Just seemed a chance for us to give her a break with us.

Good idea about suggesting going out with her on our own - especially dh . Cinema or a meal but without dcs.

I'll encourage the dcs to write/email - maybe that would be less full on for her and they love to write to her.

There's quite a bit more background which I won't bore you with - estranged family on both MIL and FIL side. Dh and I are keen history doesn't repeat itself.

Thanks again

YABU

I would rather have drunk ink than spent 'quality' time with my niece and nephew before I had kids despite them being delightful children .

You are trying to cast her in a role she does not want to fulfil

You don't mention spending time with her in purely adult terms. Have you ever taken her out for lunch, or a glass of wine without the dcs? Perhaps she feels you ONLY want her to be the kind maiden aunt and nothing else?

YABU to expect more from your SIL but YANBU to want to protect your relationship with her

Also, if she's good with the kids - let her know!

As I said, when you don't have kids, mums can seem (unintntionally) a bit she-wolfish sometimes and there seem to be loads of unrwritten rules that you can fall foul of (see the numerous AIBU threads about buying sweets, not buying sweets).

For all you know, she may have desperately wanted to have her own family but it's just not happened for one reason or another (my own aunt was very much in that situation). It can make spending time with other people's family bittersweet to say the least.

YABU. She is a single lady and has a life of her own. I see one of my DB nearly every wek because we live near each other. The others we only see about 2 or 3 times a year.

This reminds me of my brother. He'll swoop in and be fabulous and just the best uncle ever to my DS, and then we won't see him for a year. He's like that to me too, sometimes I'll talk to him on the phone a few times a week for months and then I won't hear from him or be able to reach him for ages, and when I finally do I'll find he's relocated and is working on a cattle ranch in the desert. (True story!) It's tough, esp. as he's my only sibling, but I've learned to accept that it's just his way. When DS is older I do worry about his being disappointed, but hopefully I'll be able to explain that it's just the way his uncle is, and we'll see him when we see him.

Some people just aren't as into family ties, I guess.