to be really pissed off with the NHS.

[RnR]

Feeling quite upset at the moment. Due for investigative op for fibroids on 1st June, rung up to find out more. Very cold, rude, unhelpful person on other side informs me of NOTHING, makes me feel like I am weird for asking questions like, what time will my op be, how long, will I be able to talk to someone afterwards etc... The only thing I find out is that the person who I thought was doing the procedure is not. I feel really really PISSED off that I was not informed of this. I asked for the number of the registrar's secretary and tried but got through to an answer machine.

Who can I complain to? Is this what it is really like? I feel so upset. Am I expecting too much from the NHS?

not good enough I should have said.

I think you got off fairly lightly, cat64.

I was recently taken into casualty with acute appendicitis and had to wait 6 days for an appendectomy. Of that spent 4 days on nil by mouth awaiting ops which were cancelled at last minute. Had several bouts of the worst pain I have ever had (and I've had 2 kids!) which was not even alleviated by large doses of morphine. When I finally got the op surgeon appendix was gangrenous and leaking (surgeon told me was probably only about an hour away from bursting) so I then had to spend several days on IV antibiotics etc.

Really worrying that even with an emergency like this I had to wait so long for an op. A surgeon friend (who incidentally has worked in this hospital) was horrified and says I was lucky to be alive.

That said, the nurses on the various wards I was on were absolutely lovely and really tried hard to get my treatment hurried along, but they can't do very much if theatre says no.

I have seen the same thing happen YorkshireRose to some of my patients and it scares me. It should never happen. Have had patients at waiting nbm for way too long. Have also argued with theatre to no avail. There are always going to be a lot more patients than beds and staff.

Gosh! Well thanks for the info from all of you. Obviously some of you are experienced with hospital procedures etc. I am not.

Sorry to have attacked the NHS as a whole. When I wrote my initial thread I was VENTING. I guess I am feeling a bit emotional. I am aware that lots of people have had positive experiences and have been in contact with many kind and helpfull staff.

I am sure that the NHS is an overworked machine and I am just a tiny blip on the radar.

I had an inital consultation a couple months ago at the fertility clinic and was then told I had to have this procedure. Things may have been said then but I was a bit foggy from the shock so not able to take all in. I know it is not SERIOUS as in the grand scheme of things. I guess I just like to know what is going to happen.

I had no idea about how they sort out ops etc.. and how complicated it is. I DO NOW!

Pramspotter - I certainly don't blame the staff at the hospital, they were great and really pushed to get me in for the op. It was clear that theatre was simply overwhelmed. It was a really scary experience and made me realise how overstretched the NHS really is.

In the face of that I think, OP, that having the odd abrupt phone conversation is really nothing to get worked up about. Perhaps the person you spoke to had just been in the middle of trying to juggle too many emergency cases like this?

BTW, no, I don't know about pre-ops etc.. I have no idea what to expect.

PS: Thank-you CrushWithEyeliner!! xx
Phew

Thanks cat64, feeling a lot better now. Was impressed with the keyhole surgery - couldn't believe how small the scar was!

Have been having to restrain myself from showing scars to people in the street - I will get myself arrested!

Not having the insight to understand how the system works and what pressure NHS staff can be under is completely understandable. Like RnR says a lot, how would she know if she'd never experienced it before.

And if you work in a very different environment where you have plenty of staff, huge budgets, you don't have to beg for every envelope (possibly a bit of a dramatic statement ), you have full cover if you are off sick or on leave, then you'd maybe expect everywhere to be like that. I know I had a huge shock when I left the NHS for a year (soon went back) and worked in a drug company. They couldn't deal with typing a letter AND the phone ringing, and we were all doing the Telegraph crossword come 3pm.

Hello Blu, I know, good result.

Blu wrote: {Usually, you get a pre-assessment visit, when you can ask all these q's, maybe meet the anaesthetist, etc. - this would have helped, and given you a time when you would have known you had a spot to ask all your qs.}

Thanks for the info above, it is good to know. I am really happy you have had such positive support in the past. I hope your DS is still doing well.xx

{I am in awe of the fact that my DS has had hundreds of thousands of poundsworth of top quality treatment and that we have been lucky, mostly, in meeting helpful, kind and patient employees...but I guess there will always be glitches and bad days.}

I guess the fact that the head of gynae is going to have to stop what she/he is doing demonstrates perfectly why things don't run to time get cancelled etc (assuming they mean a doc not a manager-although manager will have stuff to do too of course!)
Poor you YR and pramspotter

I'm a medical secretary to a consultant and I never mind patients ringing me to ask anything. I've been known to spend half an hour or more on the phone, trying to put someone at ease. If I cannot answer any questions, I always take a phone number and get back to them after I've asked my consultant or junior doctor. If I cannot get an answer from a doctor, I ring the patient back and tell them I haven't forgotten them, but will try and sort it the next day.

I HAVE heard one of my colleagues being shockingly rude to patients on the phone though. Then she wonders why complaints get put in about her

It is interesting to hear pramspotter talk about unrealistic expectations of patients/patients' families. I think the biggest problem there is that there is this underlying assumption within the NHS that you should know the system and the process (I find the same with schools and councils too). The fact is that this system is rarely explained clearly and the opportunity you have to ask questions are often when you've just been told something you don't want to hear and therefore can't think of the questions you need to ask. I know ... we were given a shockingly bad prognosis for my DH and were sent away from that meeting with no information, no clear understanding of next steps, and only a print out from the internet about radiotherapy. We had to do all our research ourselves and only had the consultant and registrar's details to call to ask questions. Now I don't think that wanting to know exactly what will happen and when is unreasonable or unrealistic.

If there was better communication at the outset and a formal route to ask questions, pramspotter would never have been put in that situation and OP wouldn't have started this thread.

Sorry - the fact that we had the consultant's number was good, but not ideal use of his time surely.

Themoon66, I have found your post very comforting and reassuring.

Wishingchair, you said,

'If there was better communication at the outset and a formal route to ask questions...OP wouldn't have started this thread'.

That is exactly how I feel, I totally agree. xx

Ditto MillyR re: Themoon66.

I had a minor gynae op a few weeks ago in a private hospital.

It all went very well, but although I had great care, I have to say that the opportunities for asking the consultant questions were quite limited. The nurse who came in before and after my op was fab, and made it clear that she had time for me, but while the consultant was lovely too he was much more 'ok, blah blah blah, you take care now, see you in a few months'.

I think the consultants time is v precious, that's how I understand it anyway. Luckily I had lots of leaflets explaining my procedure before the op, and am very proactive at researching stuff on here etc, so I knew the score, but it would have been confusing for me without this prior knowlege.

Btw I'm sure somebody has already said this, but they won't give you a time for your op. This is becuase they won't know until the day, and even then 'events in theatre' may change the running order.

It is horrible having to lie there gasping for your breakfast and a cuppa, but it doesn't last too long, and you can eat afterwards. Also you can usually use your mobile so don't worry that your DH won't know when to collect you.

I thoroughly enjoyed my very first general anaesthetic (yes, I'm weird) and found the whole experience much less stressful than the idea of it. Good luck.

Ok.
I'm sorry that the operative proceedure (or patient pathway as we call them now) wasn't apparent to you but as others have said you will be seen preoperatively either on the day or in advance (differs depending on seriousness of surgery / hospital set up) by both the surgeon and the anaesthetist.

Who operates - this can change, surgeons move patients onto colleagues lists sometimes if they have v. full lists or are going to be away.

When? won't have been decided yet. List order usually done the day before and is often very fluid. This is primarily for organisational reasons eg. not enough sets of kit to do 3 similar ops in a row, patient A cocked up their fasting instructions so needs to go last etc. etc.

How long? Always a bit of a "how long is a piece of string question." I am completely naffed off with being repeatedly assured by surgeons (ortho / plastics are the worst) that operations will 'only take 30minutes'. Inevitably 3 hrs later you are still there.

For all those who have had bad experiences on emergency lists with repeated fasting on consecutive days. Sounds like their is an underprovision of time in your hospital. Sadly complaints carry weight. Don't however shout at the staff. I did a pre-op round last week and got shouted at (because of problems the previous day caused by a seriously ill patient who took up a lot of theatre time) by 3 consecutive patients.

Shouting at me only made me cross, wheras writing a complaint letter would actually have made a difference. My views as a lowly clinician aren't actually listened to very much by those with organisational control.

If you need more info on anaesthetics the Royal College of Anaesthetists have some really good patient information on their webpage (www.rcoa.ac.uk)

I run paediatric pre operative clinics and I find patients(and parents) deem them invaluable in answeing questions and alleviating anxiety.
Agree with Pramspotter re streeses of beig the only staff nurse on a surgical ward though.
And alot of the time the unrealistic expectations come from within the hospital,too!

Thanks MorrisZapp, I hope I enjoy it too

Gasman, your input has been helpful. x

Most likely is that the person on the phone didn't know how to answer your Qs but should most certainly have arranged for you to talk to someone who did. Can't account for individual rudeness though and that's a shame.
Even if your Consultant had urgent cases they will always talk to you when they are free.
YANBU - I would write directly to the surgeon and copy to the patient liaison office (known as PALS) at the hospital.
It is common for one of the Consultant's Specialist Registrars to undertake a procedure and they might not know that until the day, depending on urgent cases etc - generally you are under the care of the Consultants team rather than just one individual but yur care should be done by a suitably qualified and experiance dr and you are entitled to know about them and their practice.
I hope you get what you need (and are entitled to) from them.

Thanks so much toomuchpicknmix!