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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not pay £50 a year for green waste recycling and just put it in landfill instead?

70 replies

amidaiwish · 11/05/2009 14:47

We've had a green waste bin (for grass cuttings, garden waste etc.) for a couple of years and the renewal bill has just come through. It's £50 a year for the collection.

Surely the council would prefer us to use green waste rather than put it in with our normal rubbish? Why do we have to pay for this collection?

there must be another side to this but i'm struggling to see it! so, aibu?

OP posts:
policywonk · 11/05/2009 17:21

BB, there might well be individual instances of things going wrong somewhere along the supply chain. But in general, good quality recyclable material is regarded as a valuable resource. It is certainly not routinely thrown away.

BigBellasBeerBelly · 11/05/2009 17:27

That would tie into the other thing about where councils signed really long contracts back in the day when rubbish was just rubbish, and are now paying through the nose to have valuable commodities such as metals removed, so the contractors are being paid to do something they are profiting from.

Maybe I am just very cynical.

policywonk · 11/05/2009 17:28

What does council tax pay for?

Police services
Fire services
Residential care for the elderly
Social care for the vulnerable
Maintenance of public spaces and parks
Waste collection and management
Street cleaning
Part-funding of education services
Leisure centres, libraries
All council administration and salaries
Council housing
Vocational training and youth services
Support for voluntary services

It's a pretty bloody good deal for £2k a year.

Seona1973 · 11/05/2009 17:30

we have a brown bin for garden waste that is collected fortnightly between April and November - it is free. The £50 charge may work out at only £1 a week but its not as if you are cutting the grass every week (unless you are really keen) so it works out more expensive per cut.

policywonk · 11/05/2009 17:30

BB, that might well be true about the contracts (and the cynicism )

BigBellasBeerBelly · 11/05/2009 17:51

TBH I have lost all faith in any public services...

It's all a bit depressing really.

Still never mind eh, I'm quite happy with the, um, bloke who sweeps the streets near us. he never says hello mind

katiestar · 11/05/2009 17:53

paisleyleaf- when geeen waste composts underground it does so anaerobically and is one of the main producers of methane.Home composting is 'aerobic' and produces much less greenhouse gas

ilovemydogandMrObama · 11/05/2009 17:59

I recycle. Both kids wear reusable nappies. I recycle plastic (which my council does not pick up). I have an allotment. I do my part.

But what winds me up is that recycling is the problem of the consumer, which it is to a certain extent, and while I will leave excessive packaging at the supermarket till, the problem with so much waste is in the manufacturing process.

pointydog · 11/05/2009 18:07

I do think that every council should provide a free uplift service to prevent these sorts of fairly mindless backlashes. A bill for £50 does seem a lot to an individual.

I don't understand people's objections to recycling, though. I have a friend who says the council should be paying us to clean our old cans and bottles. .

We're trying to help the planet here, people.

pointydog · 11/05/2009 18:07

improve the planet would be a better verb

paisleyleaf · 11/05/2009 18:15

"paisley - there's no point things 'composting' in landfill. They're still taking up space in landfill, and nobody is going to dig the compost out of landfill and spread it on their garden. So it's not really composting at all."

of course
I was thinking that as long as it decomposes it doesn't matter too much.

"paisleyleaf- when geeen waste composts underground it does so anaerobically and is one of the main producers of methane.Home composting is 'aerobic' and produces much less greenhouse gas"

ahhh I guess that's why we turn our compost heaps then
(but I don't often as one of them is in one of those black bin things).

ilovemydogandMrObama · 11/05/2009 18:19

At our local tip, there is a section for garden waste that doesn't go to landfill.

I think the reason the Council charges is that it's a pick up service.

amidaiwish · 11/05/2009 18:46

yes ilovemydog, i guess that is true. but they don't "charge" for picking up other rubbish/recycling and i could after all have to take that to the tip/"recycling centre" .

maybe i'll get onto vincent cable. he's pretty vocal and i could do with a bit of excitement in my life

OP posts:
amidaiwish · 12/05/2009 10:03

i've written to Vince, feel a campaign coming on!

those of you receiving free services can you tell me what borough you live in?

TIA.

OP posts:
SomeGuy · 12/05/2009 10:19

What does council tax pay for?

It's a pretty bloody good deal for £2k a year.

No it doesn't. Not even close

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4838682.stm

"Only about a quarter of the money spent by councils is raised locally through council tax and charges such as housing rents. "

And £50 is a bloody rip-off.

We're charged £3 for special plastic bags for green waste, we get through no more than tenners worth a year.

Unless you have some massive estate, £50 is obscene.

Much cheaper to drive to the dump and do it yourself.

Bramshott · 12/05/2009 10:24

So your point SomeGuy is that we should in fact be paying £8,000 per year, for all the services we're getting?!

amidaiwish · 12/05/2009 12:18

yes a complete rip off
we put it out at most, monthly (it is a bi-weekly service) and not in the winter, so it is more like £8 a time.

yes much "cheaper" to drive to the dump myself.

even cheaper to put it in a black bin liner and let it go to landfill. which i know i shouldn't and i don't want to, but to get to our dump is a good hour round trip (horrendous traffic around Kew) and i have better ways of spending my weekend.

OP posts:
ilovemydogandMrObama · 12/05/2009 13:11

Oooh - I love Vince Cable. Look if he is wearing 2 wedding rings. Listened to him being interviewed and his first wife died of cancer, but when he married his 2nd wife, he didn't take it off. She's cool with it.

Rather than complaining, what about asking for more sites for garden rubbish? Or drop off points? Weekends perhaps?

amidaiwish · 13/05/2009 09:55

for those interested, here is the reply from the constituency office:

In the context of keeping the Waste and Recycling service within budget at a very difficult time financially for the Council it was felt, when setting the 2009/10 budget, that the emphasis regarding Green Waste should be on home composting. This is a far more sustainable option than the Council collecting the waste, taking it to a transfer station and it being taken from there to a recycling facility, all involving vehicles, manpower and fuel. We are therefore promoting composters at below cost price. See

www.richmond.gov.uk/home/environment/rubbish_waste_and_recycling/recycling_in_the_gard en/composting.htm

At previous prices the Green waste collection service was, in effect, being heavily subsidised by residents who did not use it, including those who composted at home. At the increased prices (£50 for the bin if paid by direct debit) the subsidy is much less.

(In 2007/08 the Council Tax payers subsidised the collection of green garden waste by approximately £250,000. The aim in increasing charges is to reduce this by approximately £130,000 thus reducing the burden on residents generally so that people pay for the service they choose to use.)

In making a budget at a time of falling revenue and increased costs the alternative to increased charges would have been service cuts. We have tried, in this difficult situation, to take the least worst options.

On the figures so far supplied to me a majority of people have renewed their green waste bin contract at the new prices, nearly all opting for the direct debit option of £50. Only a small number have so far said they will not be renewing.

As I have explained, the service runs at a loss and cancellations would make it more not less economic as less vehicles would be used. On a more positive note it is perfectly possible for neighbours to share a green bin, albeit the contract being with just one of them.

OP posts:
amidaiwish · 13/05/2009 09:58

and d'you know what i'm going to do!? keep leaving it out and not pay... i very much doubt the council will actually give the collectors a list of houses to collect from. i bet they just drive down the road looking for the green bins wth blue lids for garden waste.

and i know it's cheeky, but i don't think IABU as at least i am still recycling green waste and not sending to landfill.

OP posts:
Uriel · 13/05/2009 10:04

policywonk - Birmingham did have Winterval, y'know.

I disagree with many of my local Council's policies, but they do seem to have got the recycling right.

EvenBetaDad · 13/05/2009 10:07

YANBU - ours is free. I would not pay.

If I had to pay I would just get a composter.

policywonk · 13/05/2009 10:11

amida, I think your constituency office's reply seems pretty reasonable. Why should those who don't have gardens (who are, by and large, those on lower incomes) subsidise those who do?

Uriel - yes, I know there was a Winterval festival, but it wasn't a substitute for Christmas celebrations, and it wasn't an attempt to de-Christianise Christmas, and it wasn't political correctness gone maaaaaaaaad.

Bramshott · 13/05/2009 10:16

Can you really not afford £4.17 a month for this?!? Yes, I suppose I'd be momentarily annoyed if ours went up that much (quite likely, given the hikes so far), but it is a very convenient service, given the alternatives. We compost a lot of stuff at home, but I have too many perennial weeds I don't want to put in the heap, so I use the green waste collection too. I don't think I'd feel right about using it and not paying for it, given that other people who had paid would then be subsidising me.

BigBellasBeerBelly · 13/05/2009 10:38

Actually i think that reply is pretty poor.

Most garden waste is not compostable at home in an average sized garden - the pruning of trees and bushes which produces loads of very woody waste which most people can't deal with at home - it needs to be chipped and so on.

I also think the argument that people without gardens having to subsidise is crappy. People who don't drive pay for the roads, people who never use the police pay for the service, people who never use the hospital pay for the service, ditto parks, benefits helplines etc.

Plus people who recycle and home compost throw away a lot less general waste, saving the council loads of money on collection/landfill for a service they have paid for. Should they be allowed to pay less for their general waste?

The idea that the tax can be "tailored" to what people actually want/use is a dodgy one IMO. Council tax should be a community tax to provide the services we need as a group (green recycling being one of them) whether we individually use them or not.

To encourage this type of attutude makes no sense to me - people could say " well I never use the parks so I won't be paying for them this year" and make people pay a fee to get in instead .... I just don't like it at all.

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