to wonder if it might not all be entirely my fault?

[SunshineIsAMiracleCure]

I put my hands up to being rubbish and lazy around the house, although I work hard out of it to support myself and my children (no DH or DP). However when I see photographs from years ago our house looks so clean and tidy and organised, despite the children being much younger and me working much harder and longer hours.

I think things began to go wrong following a huge episode of depression, which led to repeated episodes of mood problems (both up and down) and a few admissions until it all settled thanks to the right medication. Now that I've been well for ages and ages, why can't I seem to get it together around the house? The children are helpful and co-operative but I'm not leading by example and I upset myself, plus I feel judged by various people around me (this could be all in my mind). Sometimes being untidy feels like the most morally reprehensible act in the world, then I wonder if it is why I haven't moved on and made a new life with a new partner but I don't understand why the pride I used to have in my house (not that I would ever have won any prizes for it) hasn't come back.

How do I find out if I am just lazy or if there is some unaddressed problem whether psychological, cognitive or other?

It's not your fault but you won't believe me. You feel judged by people (who may or may not be judging you). What is clear is that you judge yourself harshly.

I don't think the word lazy is appropriate at all to someone who has suffered with depression.

You need to look after yourself and not post in AIBU asking if you're lazy

What are you doing to nurture yourself instead of berating yourself for untidiness - any hobbies you'd like to take up?

I keep a very untidy house, myself. I agree with shineoncrazydiamond that while clutter is undesirable, real dirt is quite different and much worse. If you're bringing up 'helpful, co-operative' happy children then you're doing an awful lot right! Do you have a trusted friend or Health Visitor you would feel comfortable asking if your house is OK? I feel sure it is.

smaller kids have smaller clutter!! how old are yours now? my teens are messy,and have more stuff.....3 school bags each most days!

small kids stuff used to just get thrown into toyboxes,but the older ones don't have that now

and don't get me started on towels and clothes left lying around......

Although really, someone else's opinion is irrelevant. One person's mess is another person's tidy, and vice versa, unless we're talking about Kim & Aggie needing to visit!The point is how you feel about it. If it's bugging you because you can't function well in those surroundings, or because you feel it's a sign you're not coping as well as you used to (although I note you refer to "our house" when it was tidier. Do you mean when there was a DP on the scene to share the load?), then maybe it would help to find a solution.
Otherwise, try to ignore what you perceive others think.
FWIW, I love going to messy houses. For one, it makes me feel better about my own pit but also, I admire the spirit of "life's too short for tidying" it shows.
Let me quote my two fridge magnets:
"My house was tidy last week. Sorry you missed it."
"Tidy people are just too lazy to look for things."

How much time do you spend tidying up/cleaning?

I'm a very untidy person and I've come to realise that rather than entirely blaming dh & ds (although god knows they contribute their share!) I need to acknowledge the fact that I spend waaaay less time on housework than a houseproud person. That's why my house is a bit of a state.

If I spent an hour a day on housework (so 7 hours pw) the place would be immaculate. I reckon I spend 2 hours a week. I am a slattern sorry, . I managed to do a regular 1/2 hour or so a day for about 2 months and it made a massive difference. Unfortunately I've slipped back and need to start over.

I'm not saying you're like that at all. Just that it might be worth comparing what you do to other people and considering what you can reasonably manage. You're on your own and that's very tough, both because you don't have someone else to pass things on to (or even just keep the kids out of your hair) or to give you moral support.

There's a hell of a lot more to life than a tidy house, but I know how you feel about the judging and I think when it starts to affect your actions, eg not having people round because you're embarrassed (guilty) then it will also affect your mood and self-esteem.

Can't believe how much I'm crying because everyone has been so nice to me.

That sounded a bit unappreciative, but it shouldn't because I feel supported a bit now

I'm fantasising about making a fresh start in a new house but it's not possible on my income and I'd probably take my problems wherever I went?

I find this very, very interesting.

I'm not sure I have any explanations that are useful though!

To add my personal perspective; I am a perfectionist by nature and yet can be horrendously chaotic about things too. My punctuality is dire, I am untidy in many ways and live in semi-organised chaos.

To give you some examples of my lazy housekeeping...I have a pile of clothes from when I moved house over 2 months ago stacked up in my room ready to be sorted and put away, I didn't load the dishwasher last night so had to do it this morning before the school run, DS spilt milk on the carpet yesterday and although I've wiped it up I doubt you'll see me get the steam cleaner on it until probably Sunday! I have a paperwork pile that has been sat for at least a week waiting to be sorted. I have yet to hoover upstairs at all in the last week.

If someone walked in for impromptu coffee today I'd be embarrassed. I'd get away with it because on the whole the place is clean and tidy, but I'd have to hope they didn't need the toilet because I suspect the taps in the downstairs loo (aka the DC toilet) are sticky and covered in children's foody handprints.

However, when I do tidy up I will compelled to do it in the most thorough way, pulling out appliancs to clean and moving furniture to hoover, cleaning the light switches and skirtings...

Someone asked me once whether the chaos of my environment was linked to how I felt about my life and putting myself in a position where there was a constant need for more order was mimicking my life in a more general sense.

ummm, hobbgoblin, that sounds pretty good going actually....!

I don't think it's about cleaning either, although I relate to the frustrated perfectionist thing - if I wash up at someone else's house, or even just bring their laundry in or whatever I do an overly meticulous job of it. I don't understand why it is an automatic reflex to help out and offer to do houseworky things in other people's houses yet I'm oblivious to the build up of stuff here. Only I'm not really oblivious am I because I'm doing plenty of whining about it

Think there is something really screwed up about my attitude to this house, which I loved when I bought it for me and my first two children. I had an unplanned third 10 years ago and we are really squished, I can't get all 3 into the main bedroom (it's an old small cottage) so I share with the youngest and the guilt drags away at me. I won't get a mortgage now that my income is dwindling, and what I pay currently is so little it allows me a lot of flexibility in how and when I work.

I think I'm being pathetic to get into such a state when I've got three lovely children and a nice life, things are tighter financially than they've been for ages but we are still ok really - just not ok enough to get a bigger house and as the older two are preparing to leave for university and work I should be feeling better about it all? I feel as though I've let them down, and I feel as though there must be something really repugnant at my core that has kept me from meeting someone new and making a better life with them. It feels as though I'm too messy and untidy for anyone to love

Sunshine
oohthis so strikes a bell with me and i too really really used to feel terrible and guilty.
I am much better now but only after accepting a couple ofthings...

1. my depression was not my fault
2. that even once I was overthe depression i found it really easy to get totally overwhelmed. Sometimes I would just wander around the house and not really have the energy to start - THIS WAS A LEFT OVER FROM MY DEPRESSION !!!
3. once i constructed a day that gave me manegable tasks and found strategies to help me i gradually got over it. I drew up a small routine each day and i found that once i did my list I usually felt focussed enough to keep going. The secret for me was to stop looking at the size of what i needed to do and just do one thing each day. That way i felt much more in control.

Does any of that sound like sense

ooh ooh ( again0
meant to say
I realised it was really really important to stop blaming myself as that became a vicious circle - if I was crap then I only deserved a crappy house IYSWIM

You kinda covered it there in the last paragraph I think. There will be a deeper psychological reason why you (and I) are avoiding achieving a state we might desire, of organsiation/tidiness/space to be proud of I'm sure.

Yet again, I imagine it might be linked to self esteem - holding back a part of you that might be judged by others and keeping it in a condition that would be judged poorly. The alternative would be to tidy and clean and proudly display your effort in the shape of a home you are proud of. A finished product that can be judged. The unfinished product (messy house, which you are just about to sort out...someday!) is not ready to be judged or validated. Thus, you avoid the final critique of your home/you!

Very armchair psychologist of me but this is what I suspect of myself.

By the way, are you punctual?

I doubt it's as bad as having a repugnant core, though I'm sure one might find a repugnant core or two down the back of my sofa or behind the bin...

I do the same thing in other people's palces by the way. weirdly I was pondering this very fact yesterday afternoon.

Sunshine your house sounds lovely.

So you have a lovely little cottage which costs you little mortgage wise and allows you to choose your working hours which allows you in turn to be there for your children when they need you.

If you moved to a new house it wouldn't automatically make you a tidy person. You would just have more boxes.

How have you let your children down? Their mum gives a fantastic example by working and supporting them and being there for them.
Lucky lucky children, you should be proud of yourself, not putting yourself down.

I am not by nature a tidy person, i have always had demanding jobs that require organisation on aq large level but have never managed to equate that to housework. So as a consequence my house whilst it is cleanish, is always cluttered with piles of paperwork, unsorted unironed clothes, piles of books, toys in interesting arty sculpture type piles......

The only thing that i have found to help is to do one thing a day. So today i am doing a load of washing and will put it away once dry. (not ironed though).
Tomorrow i'll sweep and mop the floors.
It doesn't lead to a tidy home but at least there is a clear path from the front door to the bedrooms.

Can I just say I totally sympathise, as I do all this too. I tidy and wash up meticulously at other people's houses, but in my own it doesn't seem 'worth it', and there's the psychological hang-up! All that 'I'm not worth it' crap that's really difficult to get over.

hobbgoblin, I love your armchair psychology! So true of so many aspects of my life, but it had never occurred to me about housework.

I find making small lists is helpful. So is shutting the computer and getting off MN for a while ... oh, and playing some energetic music. I had a look at the Thursday Fly thread yesterday and it was all about just this - the job seems too big, so we don't even bother starting. She talks about bursts of 15 minutes, and it really made sense. (Not that I did it, though - frittered the time away on here instead

What's wrong with an untidy house - you should see ours!

Maybe your priorities have changed and you're not used to it yet, but I think it's far more important to enjoy your time with your children, do your work, do things that enrich and enhance your life, than to do housework.

I suspect you are being more critical of yourself than other people would be. You see a messy house while other people see a lovely cosy lived-in home.

Not sure this is strictly relevant or helpful but I am the opposite. I am totally clenched about tidying up all the time and it makes me (and my children) miserable at times. I admire people with clutter in their homes because I suspect they are happier than me and spend more time playing with their children!

My obsessive tidying is also, I think, symptomatic of underlying anxiety. It's like the flip side of hobbgoblin's armchair psychology: I have this idea that if my house is orderly and clean, people will think I'm a successful, well-adjusted person, when actually they probably don't give a sh1t!

My house is untidy, though not unclean. The fact is I just don't think it's that important to spend my time on! It doesn't matter to me, it doesn't cause me distress, or make me unable to relax, to be honest, I don't even notice it unless people are coming round, and I think I should have some extra chairs and more than a footwidth on the bottom two steps where I've piled things to take upstairs.

So I'm not just slack or lazy, it's just not a priority and I honestly don't see it! Some people are very immediate environment focused, others aren't, I live more in my head!

Judgy people are a problem though, but that's their problem. I mean my brother and best friend are obsessively clean and tidy types, but they don't expect me to be like them, and likewise.

I had depression for years too and now I'm out of it it's only really solidified what I feel is important in life and tidying is not there. Although when depressed it was just another thing to beat myself up about.

{dons Oprah Winfrey hat}

Sunshine I have success with this same problem by reminding myself that my house reflects the fact that I don't think I'm worth a nice environment. I am clearly capable of it, because like you I make huge efforts when visiting others, particuarly if they are ill or have just had a baby. I also used to be the only chambermaid in a small hotel when I was a student and the manager gave me a massive bonus because they had a glowing report from the inspector.

This is a bit of a depressing thought, but if I treat it with sympathy rather than a , it motivates me to gently do a couple of things to improve the situation in my own house. Then a few hours later I do a couple more.

{takes off Oprah Winfrey hat}

{puts on stupid festival hat that has been in the shoe cupboard getting sighed at and shifted around for the last 3 years}

I'm quite a perfectionist but am often bogged down by the super-tidy detail and doing it 'properly' so a small job seems huge. I can't just tidy up the tubberware falling out of the cupboard, I need to wipe the shelf and stack in size order with lids on!!

I don't really fight this urge I just try to do a job or two a day and cross them off a list. That way, I get through everything.

Also, get your older kids to go through all their stuff before going to uni and sell unused things at a car boot, on ebay or give away via freecycle. It's certainly easier to clean/tidy a small house (we have one!) when there's less stuff in it

Should be noted that I get rid of anything not nailed down in our house!!!

Are you me OP?