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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that my ex-DP is being a complete t*sser?

31 replies

PintandChips · 27/04/2009 15:50

he thinks that because i get some of my salary in nursery vouchers i should pay more than half the nursery fees?

bearing in mind i am shelling out to buy a new flat and everything in it for me and the nipper with NO contribution from him, and am therefore up to my eyes in debt and beyond skint?

OP posts:

mayorquimby · 27/04/2009 15:54

no contribution to you buying a new flat? or no contribution with regards to child maintenance?

Stayingsunnygirl · 27/04/2009 15:54

Unless the vouchers are worth more than their face value to you when used at a workplace nursery, then he's being a tosser.

roulade · 27/04/2009 15:55

YANBU he is a tosser!!

mayorquimby · 27/04/2009 15:56

oh and with regards the nursery thing, yup he's being a tosser. he pays his half by whatever means he wants,you pay your half by whatever means you want is fair.

Original poster

PintandChips · 27/04/2009 16:20

He'll pay £100 a month on top of half the nursery costs, and have him overnight twice a week.

no contribution for buying the flat (for which i had to take out a £10k loan!)

OP posts:

2rebecca · 27/04/2009 16:21

If he's expartner then why isn't he paying a fixed amount via CSA each month for you to spend on clothes for child/ nursery/ mortgage for flat or whatever you see fit? Seems a strange arrangement

KingCanuteIAm · 27/04/2009 16:24

TBH that is a lot more than most people get and I don't think I have ever heard of an ex contributing to buying a new place for their ex unless they are buying out the old house IYSWIM.

His reasons for asking for more are spurious though, why did you tell him?

VinegarTitsThePorker · 27/04/2009 16:32

He is contributing a lot more than most, i pay £400pm in nursery fees, my xp pays exactly £0 towards that

The csa says he should contribute £5 a week for ds, my xp pays exactly £0 of that

Is your xp saying he wants to pay less than £100 or are you asking him to pay more to meet you half way with the nursery fees you pay?

VinegarTitsThePorker · 27/04/2009 16:37

opps i read it wrong, so he is paying half the coast and £100 on top of that

I certainly wouldn't be complaining about that, i am pretty sure the csa would work out that he should pay you less (depending on his income) and if he has you ds twic a week that counts as shared access so they would take that into concideration and he would pay even less for that.

I'd say you have a good deal, so work out a comprimise if he is not happy, tell him you will split the fees 55/45

Original poster

PintandChips · 27/04/2009 16:37

KingCanuteIAm, is that really more than most people get? is it not fair that he pays half the nursery costs? i work four days a week, he works from home fairly randomly and DS is in nursery 3 days a week. Then £100 towards the cost of providing a home/food/basics for DS? surely that's not too much to ask?

if he didn't pay half nursery fees i'd have to give up work, then wouldn't be able to pay mortgage/loan... so i'd be out on my ear!

OP posts:

Original poster

PintandChips · 27/04/2009 16:40

VinegarTitsThePorker, why on earth should i pay more than half the nursery fees? i don't understand this - surely we are both parents and have equal financial responsibility? why shoudld the financial burden not be shared equally?

OP posts:

KingCanuteIAm · 27/04/2009 16:42

Maybe it should be but the fact is that most parents get around £100 per month full stop. Some get much, much less than that.

VinegarTitsThePorker · 27/04/2009 16:48

If you made a claim to the csa, they would not take your income or your outgoings into account, only your xp's, they will work out how shared the access is and take a % of his income, they would not make him pay half your nursery fees and then a % of living costs on top of that. If you choose to pay childcare so you can go to work that is down to you, it may not seems fair buts thats the way they see it, unless he has joint custody, then he will have to arrange and pay for childcare, when your dc is in his custody. Then the childcare fees are down to you, he is not obliged to pay them

You seem to have a good setup with him, all i am saying is dont rock the boat, if he makes a claim to the csa himself, you may end up worse off

NeedCoffee · 27/04/2009 16:59

yanbu and i think it sounds like a fair set up, of course he should be paying half-unless he is looking after ds while you work then why shouldn't he.

Original poster

PintandChips · 27/04/2009 17:01

so if we go for joint custody he would be responsible for arranging and paying for childcare when he had him?

i'm really horrified by how unfair the system is, the mother is completely fcked financially as the full burden falls with her! i can really see why access for the father can become an issue because as the mother it's the only power you have - As in 'why should i give you flexibility to come and go as you please if you're not prepared to support us financially?' I know it doesn't seem fair, but for fck's sake, tha's how i feel.

i just can't believe he's quibbling over £30 a month or whatever it is that i get in tax relief.

OP posts:

2rebecca · 27/04/2009 17:12

If you have joint residency then your child will be with him half the time so his bills should be the same as yours, otherwise it's not joint residency. You can't expect him to have the child half the time and pay your half of the expenses as well as his. I presume you wouldn't expect to pay for your ex's housing and heating costs plus any childcare expenses he has whilst looking after your son. If it's joint residency then usually each parent pays their own expenses unless they agree a common pot for clothes, nursery etc.
In Scotland there is usually a resident parent and a nonresident parent (I thought custody was an American term). A few parents have joint residency where the child spends alternates weeks with the parents. Then I suppose you'd have to agree on childcare arrangements and both pay half.

Original poster

PintandChips · 27/04/2009 17:18

we don't have joint residency, it will be about 70/30 in my favour, hence his contribution to costs of £100/month.

i don't think joint residency would be possible as he travels often but irregularly for work (so when he is here changes from one week to the next). DS is only 2.5, i want his care to be consistent as possible from week to week...

OP posts:

Snorbs · 27/04/2009 18:16

PintandChips, don't get too hung up on terms like "joint residency" as there are no fixed definitions of what that means. A court would decide on either sole residency, where one parent is considered the "resident parent", or shared residency, where both parents are considered as equally important. Even shared residency doesn't require there to be a 50:50 split of time though. Shared res is more about official recognition of equal status as parents than a strict sharing of time.

If either of you take it up with the CSA your ex would be legally required to contribute roughly 11% of his take-home salary (15% of net salary for one child, reduced by two-sevenths for the overnight stays). If that's more than what he's currently offering you and he's not self-employed, let the CSA deal with it. If it's not, then it might be worth a bit of flexibility on your part as you're still, effectively, ahead.

As for his complaint about your tax relief due to having childcare vouchers, the obvious answer would be for him to purchase childcare vouchers through his employer and so gain the same tax relief.

curlygal · 27/04/2009 18:23

I think that the fact that you are able to claim childcare vouchers and he isn;t shouldn;t affect the amount you each contribute to the nursery fees.

As I understand it childcare vouchers are "Salary sacrifice" so you are actually choosing to give up part of your salary in order to get it an childcare vouchers. The fact that you pay part of your share of the nursery fees in childcare vouchers isn;t really relevant if you ask me.

I claimed them for a while and it ended up that I was actually better off claiming tax credits and not childcare vouchers so I thinkm you should check with the tax credits office that this isn;t the case for you, I now get much more tax credits than I did when I claimed childcare vouchers. It may be different if you are a higher rate tax payer but I was on basic rate and it was much better not to claim them.

In terms of your Ex P's financial contribution on it's own - I would consider that to be generous. My DS lives with me full time, I pay around £450 a month in nursery fees and I have to beg and plead with Ex P each month to get money out of him - the last two months I have got £100 out of him (due to the credit crunch he can no longer afford child support ) so half of the nursery fees and an extra £100 a month plus several over nights sounds great to me, but I don;t think you are being unreasonable over the issue of the tax and NI savings on the childcare vouchers, no. I think you should just pay half the nursery bill each, as that is fair, regardless of how the money is paid to the nursery.

KingCanuteIAm · 27/04/2009 19:02

Curlygal, I have never heard that you cannot claim childcare vouchers if you are getting tax credit or vice versa. I am pretty certain you can have them both at the same time...

curlygal · 27/04/2009 19:07

Yes, sorry if I wasn;t clear.

You can claim them both but you may be better off just claiming tax credits.

I didn;t mean you can't claim them both I meant that it may be better for you to just claim tax credits.

In my case I was claiming the max childcare vouchers and got v little in way of tax credits, when I claim just tax credits I am entitled to much more than I saved by using childcare vouchers.

The person I spoke to at tax credits did a calculation on both scenarios and the difference was huge so worth looking into.

curlygal · 27/04/2009 19:30

kingcanute

There is usually a calculator here

www.hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/ccin.htm

that allows you to find out if you are better with vouchers + tax credits or just tax credits

It says it is not working at the moment though

HappyMummyOfOne · 27/04/2009 19:43

It is possible to claim tax credits childcare help and the salary sacrifice scheme at the same time but not on the same amount - ie if childcare costs are £400 a month and you get £270 through vouchers, you can only claim tax credits on the remaining £130. Usually, if you qualify for childcare help through tax credits its more beneficial to just claim that rather than the voucher scheme.

TOP, you are very lucky that you get half the nursery fees plus £100 a month from your ex. Some people get very little so I wouldnt argue with him in case he plays hard ball and gives you the CSA amount. As for paying towards your new place, I dont see why he should as surely your choice of house is up to you.

KingCanuteIAm · 27/04/2009 20:10

Interesting, I didn't realise the amount paid by vouchers was canceled out, in effect. It seems very odd as you are sacrificing salary for the vouchers, in effect you are paying for it... wouldn't it make more semse just to add the amount you save in tax onto your net earnings for the year???

Anyway, sorry for the hijak Op, this is just something I had not heard of!

ChippingIn · 28/04/2009 01:29

snorbs - 11% FFS, that's pathetic. How in godsname did they come to that pathetic sum??? Incredible.

TOP - I can see why people are saying that you are lucky to be getting what you are getting, but I can totally see why you don't exactly feel lucky. Half of nursery fees and £100 is very little, £25 a week (roughly) to feed, clothe, house and generally provide (his half) for his child.... pathetic. What a shite system.

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