to wonder if mumsnet is a haven for very well off and slightly blinkered individuals.....?

[preparetobeflayed]

Obviously I have changed my name on this thread as I am prepared for the onslaught.....

Threads about Boden, how sad they are that their jumper from Boden has been pilling, 'oh woe is me my nanny has called in sick', 'I am hard up now the tax band has increased (although I am still earning £170,000....

Where are the rest of the population who reflect most of the parents I meet. I also wonder whether some people are able to look around and see what else is happening in the world....?

(Just having a bit of a rant about some of the other threads I guess......

A teacher in middle management would earn 40K I have in the past. But yes I agree coolma.

I don't think they are MC because it isn't about money.

You see this is why I keep sayingI don't actually think you can say we have a WC and a MC any more. The lines are so blurred that it is a bit of nonsense. There is a spectrum of class but not clearly defined blocks of class.

FWIW I don't fit anywhere either. I wouldn't fit in with the plumbers (my brother is a welder so I wouldn't have much in common with his mates either) but on the other hand I don't fit in with those who are definitely in the MC end of the spectrum either.

I am getting a bit fed up with myself for falling back on the same old stereotypes.

(That said socio-economic scales would not have a teacher at the bottom)

I agree class is very hard to define but I feel working class and am most at home with other people who have jobs similar to my own but also see themsleves as working class.

Since moving to a more affluent area where more people have professional jobs I have become more aware of my class.

I suppose I have never really fitted in which is why I think about it,

I'm another teacher whose dds see us as 'poorer' than many of their friends' parents because they seem to go on lots of foreign holidays etc, whereas we've had one in fourteen years.

However, I agree with Twinset - teaching is perceived as a middle class occupation but a few of the teachers I know would consider themselves as working class, or have very real working class backgrounds (eg my dad was a steel worker).

I suspect it comes from the idea that university education used to be more elitest and that therefore gaining a degree somehow 'middle-classifies' you.

And yes - teachers in middle managemet such as heads of large departments, or shortage subjects, or Advanced Skills teachers, could earn around 40,000 - would need to be a deputy or head to get higher than this though.

I noticed in my previous school which was a tough school with a very deprived intake there were quite a few working class teachers. We came from that background and managed to escape the poverty and want to do the same for others.

I now teach in a school with a more affluent intake and perhaps not surprisingly I stand out because I am not the typical middle class teacher.

I was discussing with one of my classes possible careers and one boy was adamant that he would never be a teacher as the pay was so low, both his parents are teachers! I think our pay is fine and dd needs to get in the real world personally.

I sort of think class is self-identified. My grandparents were working class. My dad did a degree at nightschool and became a very white collar worker. My mum became a teacher. I would consider myself as middle class. I was brought up in a very middle class environment, it was expected that I would go to university and I think my outlook on life is probably pretty middle class.

What do you think about your children twinset? I would imagine they'd consider themselves middle class with a parent who is a teacher (don't know what your DH does) but what do you think?

I was thinking the same thing spice.

She was supposed to be starting a public boarding school this year with a view to boarding in a few years, it would be difficult for her to call herself w/c if she had gone there. Having moved down here she will hopefully stay in the state sector but may go to the grammar and I imagine she will go to university. I imagine she will see herself as middle class.

My mother sees me as middle class and is mortified that I describe myself as w/c.

That's interesting twinset. I bet your mum thinks you should feel middle class as a teacher.

My parents consider themselves lower middle class I think. Or not entirely sure

My mother's relatives were working class, most of them. We became middle class. My father's family was middle class. We 3 chidlren are middle class and went to private schools. My children are middle class (and thieir 4 cousins) and all 9 grandchildren got to private schools but there are plenty of working class but well off people at privte schools around here. They even say haitch instead of aitch etc. Money is not the same as class.

As for mumsnet I like being in touch with people who are very different from me with my private island, skiing holidays and the like. It's much more interesting than just talking to the same sort of people all the time.

My mum has just never been comfortable in who she is, always wanted to earn more, have a better job and be better educated. Hence her dissatisfaction in her class. I am comfortable in who I am. My mum takes the line that she did not send me to uni for me to cling to my w/c roots.

Primary school teachers in middle management don't earn 40K.....

Do you not?

Nope. Senior management team, UPS3 + TLR2 = 36ishK.

Although do you have middle management in primary schools?

I think you would class a TLR post on the senior management team as middle management.

I think that people on the middle management team usually have at least 2 TLR points

Depends how big the school is and what TLR posts are in place. We are only one form entry - senior management team is made up of Head, Deputy and 3 TLR 2 post holders. There are no TLR 1s.

I meant in a secondary school.

And TLR 1 wouldn't be 40K either.

I suppose it's because in a secondary school the number of staff being managed etc is likely to be bigger.

agree that teachers are well paid, and about secondary teachers generally having opps to earn more - some sec depts are as big as primary schools! UPS3 plus lowest level of TLR1 is 35121 + 6997, so well over 40k

THe threshold winds me up and I am refusing for a second year to do my application. I am paid to teach not fill in endless forms about how good I am.

I thought they'd ditched the threshold form from this year?

Agree though, twinset - when I did mine cough....cough years ago, I complained abiout the same thing, that it was stopping me from doing the exact thing I was writing about! Took forever.

Have they? I am sure I have had an email asking if I am going to hand it in?

I would be glad if they did.

Don't know the ins and outs - was under the impression that the ATL and NASUWT had agreed to link it to Performance Management instead.