to think a flat tax of 25% for all on everything would be much fairer?

[peapodlovescuddles]

51% is ridiculous. People shouldn't be penalised for working hard their entire life (and I know this will be controversial) and being much better than average at what they doI know the economy is in trouble but surely alienating the richest portion of society is a stupid idea?
£150,000 isn't a ridiculous salary, there are plenty of middle class professionals who aren't living a lavish lifestyle earning that much.

I would have thought it was almost impossible not to live a lavish lifestyle on 150k. Unless you ferretted it all away in banks or under mattresses.

and, tiredemma good point. I think I will just sit on my fat ass from now on, if I am not considered a hard worker. I will no longer put myself out. Let the criminals take over with no-one to protect the public from them, then see who works hard for their money.

peapodlovescuddles - your DH earns £400k per year?!?!?!

and you think someone who earns £10k should pay tax at the same rate?!?!

SO your DH earns £400k, pays 25% tax and is left with £300k.

Person A earns £10k per year, pays 25% tax, and is left with £7.5k.

And you think that would be a very fair system...

'YABVFU' - fabulous

because 25 % of £10000 would be impossible to live on, and take masses more families below the poverty line

25 % of £150 000 would still leave you with enough to live on quite nicely

so YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVU and naive

some of the hardest working, most integral to the functioning of our society jobs bring in a wage of around 10 % of your example. e.g nurses. carers. the people who clean up after us all .

BTW at one point the Beatles were paying 95% (marginal) tax on their earnings, which was what prompted them to write the song, "Taxman".

51%? You're getting off lightly.

sorry, after you had taken 25 % of £10000, the amount left would be impossible to live on

i imagine more people would be forced out of the workplace and onto benefit as it would not be cost effective to work

YABVU. I work just as ahrd as you, probably a dam sight harder. Doing a job where I have to make life and death decisions and could be responsible for someone's death if I get it wrong. I never have time to eat or have a drink while at work and often don't have time to go to the loo for ages and am therefore plagued by UTIs. All of this for a wage of 21k a year.

If I had to pay 25% tax we would really struggle to pay bills, put food on the table.

If I earned over 150k I'd accept that I moed into a higher tax bracket and be thankful that I earned such a good wage. FFS its not even 51% on your whole salary, only a proportion of it. YABVU.

If everyone paid the same percentage of their income in tax the low paid would have to be paid a lot more or there would be no incentive for them to work at all, they would be better off on benefits ..and the higher paid would find it a lot more expensive to employ nannies, cleaners etc. In fact the price of most services in this country would increase. Or we'd have more people in the benefits system which in turn would increase pressure on public finances.

We do not pay excessive tax in this country IMO.

I find it interesting the way some well paid people justify not having to pay their fair share though. As they are better able to take advantage of tax breaks, the better paid often pay proportionately less of their salary in tax. Yet many well paid people (I consider myself well paid BTW ) seem to be convinced they work harder than everyone else and that the world is packed out with scroungers living off the sweat of someone else's brow. It doesn't make sense to me. I just don't see the world that way.

sigh. I have posted this before but it's worth saying again.

People in the lowest icome bracket already pay MORE tax (in gross terms) than people in higher brackets.

This is because they are disproportionately hit by VAT etc.

Here are the figures given in answer to a parliamentary question about gross tax levels.

In the 2004/5 tax year households in the bottom bracket earnt an average of £8,376 and paid an average of £3,564 gross tax - about 43% of their total income.

People in the top bracket earnt an average of £84,357 and paid an average of £29,420 in tax - about 35%.

So please stop moaning about your tax bracket - it is the poorest people who are paying the most tax, not the richest.

thanks for the sensible post, theyoungvisitor.

I do earn a good salary, and I know I had a lot of taxpayers money to get there, what with teh state school at first, then private school on an assisted place (no I don't agree with them but wasn't so politically aware at 11) then 4 years of university. Then the firms I worked for benefit from the infrastructure paid for by the taxpayer. I live in a house with water, power, a road outside, a hospital, send my children to school etc etc all paid for by the taxpayer. There is no way on this earth that I would grumble about paying tax. And the "efficiency savings" make me shudder - what extra wastage have they allowed to go on all this time and only spotted now? Seems like "cuts" by another name.

So just in case all high earners get tarred with teh same brush: I think I should pay tax, and I think I should pay more tax than people who earn less than me. I just wish that council tax etc was fairer because I think I'm getting a bit of a free ride there.

FFS, where have all the good trolls gone? Not even an 'A' for effort there, OP.

stickylittlefingers, you are a breath of fresh air.

If only some of these high earners took some time to actually think about the way that we live as a society, maybe they would stop thinking they owe the rest of us nothing.

yaNbu

YANBU. YAB stupid.

Also glad to see that those who do not pay top rate tax must necessarily be welfare scroungers, as per madeindevon2's comments. I believe tax income goes to support more than payments to benefit scroungers. Apparently there are schools and hospitals and police and all sorts of other things - and it seems they don't pay for themselves (bloody scrounging nurses, teachers and police officers).

Also, when people say "efficiency savings", please think about what that means. It means people losing their jobs - it's not buying ten boxes of paperclips instead of 20; it means closing departments, stopping services. To make billions in "efficiency savings" a great many people have to be sacked.

I would rather pay more tax and have better services and a more equal society. Although I'm relatively well off at the moment (not in the 40% band yet, but a lot better off than I have been at other times ) I think from pure selfishness that I would have a better quality of life if we lived in a society with more £££s spent on schools and hospitals, and good levels of benefits paid to those who are unable to work or cannot find a job. I also think that it would be morally a better society.
Terribly old fashioned, I know, but there you go. I like unions, too

MIFLAW - And then the Beatles all moved abroad so maybe not the best example, although I bet John Lennon wishes he had stayed away from NY and paid the tax

If you cut everyone's rate of tax to 20% the country could not afford it. If you raised everyone's rate of tax any higher than 20% it would penalise those on minimum wage jobs and send them into poverty.

That's why everyone can't just pay the same.

A flat rate of tax is a fair system- those who earn more pay more- how is that not fair? YANBU on that point.

However- minimum wage or personal allowance needs to be greatly increased in order for it to work and not penalise those at the lower end of the earning table.

In addition there needs to be a closing of all loopholes that the super-rich use to evade paying their fair share, and the removal of VAT on basic commodities to avoid penalising those on low or fixed incomes.

OP -YABU if you think people on low incomes do not work hard. There are also people on pretty high incomes who do not do particuarly much for their money.

Caring, cleaning, and the food industry are the lowest paid sections of the workforce, and yet we could not manage as a society without people working hard in these industries.

ah but dollius, don't you remember that there's no such thing as society - Thatcher's (or Joseph's more accurately) insidious influence is still very obvious.

YABVU laughably so.

"or just to support those who sit at home claiming benefits!? "

25% tax on all would be completely unworkable. Even more would end up on benefits than there already are and the govt would look to target those they consider to be better off as they have today.

stickylittle fingers 'josephs' showing your age there!! tee hee

anyone and I mean ANYONE who thinks this is a good idea has literally no understanding of living in poverty.

And ANYONE trying to argue that 150,000 isnt a big wage is living a fucking bubble.