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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think 51% tax is ridiculous, and already to be planning to move to Asia

805 replies

hedgiemum · 22/04/2009 14:33

Namechanged. Married to someone who earns well in excess of £150,000 a year, though neither does he earn 7 figures.
He is still quite young in his career - a recent promotion to a senior position, but has not been earning this kind of money of long, so we still have a mortgage and haven't saved large amounts (what we have saved is through his pension which is no longer going to be particularly worth doing.)

He phoned me a minute after end of budget to say he'd watched it with his boss whose reaction was that he would move the company (not a bank, but in finance) to Asia. Probably Hong Kong - 12% tax rather than the 51% we'd be paying here.

Seems like a kneejerk reaction, and clearly we can afford to pay more, but boss doesn't feel he'll get good productivity from staff if they are getting to take home less than half their income. Plus it decreases ever-present risk of them being headhunted by companies in lower-tax economies.

AIBU to be PLEASED (I used to hate tax exiles.) Partly because it just does not seem fair. Partly because this country has been run so badly by New Labour of whom we had such high expectations, and the medical care we have received has been shite, the local schools are shite, the roads are insanely busy and yet is costs so much to live here.

OP posts:
WilfSell · 23/04/2009 15:34

They're just sounding off. Nobody waits weeks to see a GP: almost all of them are required to see patients within 48 hours.

Some councils do have fortnightly rubbish collection. They also typically collect green waste, food waste, cans and glass and paper for recycling, provide streetcleaning and weeding services, collect bulky items and provide local refuse dumps. All mostly free at the point of use.

Most of what goes on as 'public services' goes on unseen by the wider public.

CoteDAzur · 23/04/2009 15:37

Not a GP. Specialist doctors. Yes, people do wait for several weeks.

LeninGrad · 23/04/2009 15:39

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Kathyis6incheshigh · 23/04/2009 15:40

You often have to wait for several weeks to see a GP if you're not prepared to insist to the receptionist that it's an emergency.
And I've never lived somewhere the council collects all those things for recycling.

LeninGrad · 23/04/2009 15:41

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WilfSell · 23/04/2009 15:43

Yes people do wait to see a specialist. I'd love it to be like France, Cote, where people can be seen immediately but, oh wait, that would take a higher rate of income tax and a PSBR running at 60% for the last 10 years.

And now instead we're gonna have to spend the extra borrowing bailing out the financial and housing market crash fuelled by, oh wait, excessive greed and limited taxation.

Hm. Summat the wrong way round here, huh?

bundle · 23/04/2009 15:44

we have that kind of recycling, though bulky waste is a few days, up to a week and you book them over the phone

garden waste is fortnightly in wheelie bin, normal waste/recycling (clothes, tin, glass, plastic, paper etc) all weekly

normally wait about 2 days for gp appt if it's not an emergency, same day if it is

sarah293 · 23/04/2009 15:45

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sarah293 · 23/04/2009 15:47

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CoteDAzur · 23/04/2009 15:49

I don't think it would take higher income tax to adopt France's social security system, where you go and see the doctor of your choice, pay, then send the bill to SS. They pay you 80% of their standard cost for that kind of visit, test, operation, whatever (not what you paid). Your private insurance pays the rest (if you have one).

CoteDAzur · 23/04/2009 15:52

So, coming back to original point I was trying to make - your rubbish doesn't get collected every day, you have to wait for weeks to get a doctor's appointment, and you think UK has a commendable public service?

Not to mention completely unreliable and horribly expensive underground transport (5 pounds for a return ticket of the shortest possible route???), but that might be just in London, I don't know.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 23/04/2009 15:53

OK our council must be officially crap at recycling then - they only collect paper, cans and plastic bottles. And bulky item collection costs ££.

WilfSell · 23/04/2009 15:55

No but the French healthcare system has effectively been subsidised for years by govt borrowing (historically maintained at a higher level than in the UK). I think they will struggle now that GDP is slashed everywhere.

brettgirl2 · 23/04/2009 15:55

YABU no-one 'needs' that much money.

People earning over 6K are taxed at 20% bualso have to pay NI, meaning actual rate of over 30%.

Couples who both earn 30K do not qualify for child tax credits and get less money back from childcare voucher schemes.

If you can't afford to live in a certain area then move to a different one, it really is simple.

Litchick · 23/04/2009 15:56

Do the french borrow more than us then? I saw our figures and almost fainted...but then I was brought up to believe if you can't afford it don't buy it.

ssd · 23/04/2009 15:56

hedgiemum, have you gone yet?

Bramshott · 23/04/2009 15:57

Where in the world does your rubbish get collected every day?!?!

I really don't understand what the problem is with a fortnightly rubbish collection? Isn't it one of those things that the Daily Mail has whipped everyone into a state about, without anyone really stopping to think "hang on, why is this such a big problem?". When we go to my PIL house in Ireland there is no rubbish collection from the house and it is such a pain (and no, I'm sure that isn't the norm in Ireland, they've just not got it arranged as they are not there all the time) - having to think about how to get rid of everything really makes you appreciate the service we have here.

duchesse · 23/04/2009 16:01

Where does rubbish get collected every day? Spain for one place. I'm sure others will be along with other countries to cite.

WilfSell · 23/04/2009 16:10

When Brown was Chancellor he set a target of running national debt at a maximum of 40% of GDP which he achieved. Until now. France, Germany, the US have in the same period held their own national borrowing around 60%. This is - in Europe - one of the things that has funded a better healthcare system.

CoteDAzur · 23/04/2009 16:13

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bramshott · 23/04/2009 16:18

Okay, so clearly it does get collected daily in some (mainly hotter perhaps?) countries.

My point really was that I don't see that it's a problem to have it collected fortnightly - where there is space for wheely bins, and where recycling is collected on the alternate weeks. It certainly isn't a problem for me.

CoteDAzur · 23/04/2009 16:22

You don't understand the problem with fortnightly rubbish collection?

As in, you don't mind that your rubbish is festering next to your home and attracting rats, insects, and God only knows what else?

CoteDAzur · 23/04/2009 16:23

And what about the smell?

Really, that you are so used to the idea that it doesn't bother you to effectively be living in a dumpster.

Bramshott · 23/04/2009 16:23

But it's in a wheely bin. With a lid that closes. And most of it in there is in tied up bags anyway. We have never had rats in the bins. Some flies possibly, but hardly an infestation.

Perhaps we're just going to have to agree to differ on this one!

bertieboo · 23/04/2009 16:26

Just a little something that hit my inbox today.

Post the UK higher tax rate hike to 50%, it's worth reminding oneself of how the taxation system in this country is structured.
This easy to understand example should make it all pretty clear...

HOW THE TAX SYSTEM WORKS

Suppose that every day ten men go for beer & the bill for all ten comes to £100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes it would go something like this
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day & seemed quite happy with the arrangement until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers?
How could they divide the £20 windfall so everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33.
But if they subtracted that from everyone's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount & he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay £5 instead of £7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before.
And the first four continued to drink for free.
But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a pound out of the £20,' declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got £10!'

'Yes, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a pound, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I did'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get £10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him.
But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important.
They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, public servants and private sector workers, is how our tax system works.
The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.
In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier and weather is nicer.