to think 51% tax is ridiculous, and already to be planning to move to Asia

[hedgiemum]

Namechanged. Married to someone who earns well in excess of £150,000 a year, though neither does he earn 7 figures.
He is still quite young in his career - a recent promotion to a senior position, but has not been earning this kind of money of long, so we still have a mortgage and haven't saved large amounts (what we have saved is through his pension which is no longer going to be particularly worth doing.)

He phoned me a minute after end of budget to say he'd watched it with his boss whose reaction was that he would move the company (not a bank, but in finance) to Asia. Probably Hong Kong - 12% tax rather than the 51% we'd be paying here.

Seems like a kneejerk reaction, and clearly we can afford to pay more, but boss doesn't feel he'll get good productivity from staff if they are getting to take home less than half their income. Plus it decreases ever-present risk of them being headhunted by companies in lower-tax economies.

AIBU to be PLEASED (I used to hate tax exiles.) Partly because it just does not seem fair. Partly because this country has been run so badly by New Labour of whom we had such high expectations, and the medical care we have received has been shite, the local schools are shite, the roads are insanely busy and yet is costs so much to live here.

I don't think it's enough to say good riddance how many more people think like this? I believe emigration is already increasing and it's different from the seventies it's much easier for "regular" high earners (as opposed to rock stars etc) to relocate abroad for a couple of years if they don't like the tax culture.

The attitude isn't pleasant and neither are the results but it can't be dismissed with sod off then. I mean -- it can, people can say what they like, but there could be deeper implications.

spokette you are wrong and a bit sentimental btw

franca - maybe it feels quite lefty compared with Italian national politics?

Goodnightmoon, I have been contributing money and my time to charity since A'levels.

Started helping out with Dr Barnardo's during summer holidays.

When I got my first job, I successfully applied to be a volunteer befriender for a seriously mentally disabled woman. Even took her to London to see Joseph and technicolour dream coat. Later, I volunteered on a youth scheme for kids who have been in trouble with the law and now that I have my own children, I volunteer to teach Sunday School at my local church and I singlehandedly organised a craft activity day for the local children in the church hall. Plus I volunteer when I can at the school.

On top of that, I make regular donations to charity.

Does that answer your pithy, sneering question?

Lefty compared to the average Italian even, I'm afraid...

boredwithmyoldname, what am wrong and sentimental about?

"people sharing what little they have" ..you have an idealistic view

but v impressive charity work

love Nancy's "we had it tough" Pythonesque comment.

May I just shay that I think the UK is bloody fantashtic & I love the NHS cos it means that everyone has a chance to be treated, even if they have to wait 3 bloody years for it.

my understanding is that in the US folk know what you owe and everyone talks openly about earnings

""people sharing what little they have" ..you have an idealistic view"

Maybe so, but not as unrealistic as you might think in my (albeit limited) experience. I lived in a very small and extremely poor Nigerian village for 2 years and in general people did help each other out when necessary. As everyone was one bite of food away from real hunger and no-one had anything much tucked away for a rainy day everyone's survival pretty much depended on a helping hand at some time or another and sharing with family and friends was integral to the culture in a way I don't think we westeners can really grasp. A lot died of course, but I never knew anyone to die cause others with-help what little their was from them. That only really held true on a village scale, of course...

Like policywonk, I'm really enjoying this thread and am relieved to see such a high proportion of people taking the mick out of the poor, suffering rich. Bless their cashmere socks...

I live in London, I work full time, I am a single parent of a child who is in childcare and earn an awful lot less than £150k. And I have a pretty good lifestyle.

It's laughable to say that that's 'not that much' in London. Shows very warped view of life!

I don't want to take the mick out of the rich in their present circumstances. However when someone still in work and still earning lots of money (by normal standards) starts to complain that they can't manage if the tax rates rise... it becomes fairly difficult to avoid it

I agree with Spicemonster - I live in (fairly) central London and have small children (both in childcare, or will be when I return from mat leave) and between us my partner and I earn a fraction of hedgiemum's DH (in fact we qualify for tax credits).

However life is fine. Not luxurious, but fine. All this "woe is me, housing in London is soooooooooooooo expensive, schools are so rubbish, you absolutely need £25k for the nanny and another £25k for the private schools so little Jemima doesn't have to mix with the hoi polloi", and £50K for the house in Chelsea.

No you don't. You can live quite well in a flat and send your children to the local primary, many of which are great (my nearest school has an outstanding ofsted in every category).

Or you can move a few stops out of London and cope with a short commute. People do it and - shock - SURVIVE.

Oh please -- how can anyone say that the US is a capitalist system?

Any government that bails out Wall Street, isn't that socialism?

I've namechanged

Up until 12 months ago DH and I might both have been looking at paying the higher rate. Not an issue any more as we've both been made redundant. Like the OP we invested in a hefty mortgage but fortunately our savings (and redundancy) will allow us to keep up payments while we sell the house.

As far as I can see the only winners out of this will be the accountants - in my experience anyone earning at that rate will just spend a bit more to make sure they pay even less in tax.

We have lived abroad in the past but are staying put for now. I always have a bit of a chuckle when I hear people going on about these countries where tax is miraculously lower. Yeah, maybe income tax comes in a lot lower, but I was pleasantly surprised when I returned to the UK after 15 years overseas both at the levels or public services and overall tax rates.

Boredwithmyoldname - I agree with what you are saying. I think that this change has been introduced to make the government more popular and the amounts it will raise will not be sufficient to get us out of the hole we are in. No one seems to be looking beyond hating bankers and blaming them for all of the economic problems, which go so so much deeper than that. The economic situation we are in was contributed to by bankers but also by a huge number of other people, for example all of those spending vast amounts on credit cards, borrowing 5x salary to buy houses - no, the banks shouldn't have been letting them borrow it (and the government shouldn't have been letting the banks lend it) but there must be some responsibility at every level? While all this was going on the government was also merrily spending all of the country's cash reserves, selling of its gold at the lowest price in years, somehow this seems to have been overlooked in the rush to bash the bankers. Also, to reiterate what a few others have said, the bankers are not the only ones earning >£100k and the ones that should shoulder a huge amount of responsibility for the banks' failings, the ones formerly with the millions of pounds of bonuses each, are a small proportion of those working in the industry.

I have just been listening to the radio and the effect of all the changes on " high earners" will actually be that they will pay 60% on all earnings over £100k (when you take the removal of personal allowance for >£100k and the rate rise to 50% above £150k into account). The budget's effect on the "average family" will be that they will be £30 a year better off .

If I understand OP correctly, I agree with her. While >£100k is undeniably a high income, surely 60% tax(albeit only on earnings over £100k) is going to seriously affect people's incentive to try and earn these kind of amounts here. It simply feels like the balance has tipped too far. If that happens, then there will be a long term effect on the nation's economy, because love them or loathe them, the wealthy provide a huge slice of the taxes that support those in society that need it. We know the money is needed to pay off the money used to bail out the banks, we are where we are with that, but questions need to be asked about where the rest of our taxes are being spent - grant schemes for example, where millions are being given to profitable companies to open premises, when in all likelihood they would do it anyway...the number of people employed in local government and all the expenses they claim..there are huge amounts being squandered that could be much better spent on improving education or reducing child poverty.

wb.....that must have been a life changing experience.

Interesting thread...

Trouble is, it IS totally possible to work out how to be a tax exile (and even if you work for someone else, it's surprisingly easy to do if you have a bit of cash behind you) and (and THIS, IMHO, is what's wrong with the system) it's still totally legal to come back here and throw yourself on the NHS / state even if you haven't paid any tax.

THAT's what's wrong.

I have sympathy with both sides of the argument. If you work ina high pressure job (which, if you are earning over £150K per year, you probably are), then it's difficult to schedule a Drs appointment a week on Tuesday (which is the only time you can get an NHS appt) so you end up basically having to go private for treatment... there are lots of other examples.

But, I equally appreciate that there are very few people who haven't been affected by this recession and, being in the top tax bracket probably means you have a better lifestyle than most...

But, to whoever said 'they'd love to have the opportunity to pay so much tax' - be very careful what you wish for.

my dad (very poor upbringing) always wanted to pay lots of tax. Until the day he had to.

Then he became a tax exile.....

So, all in all, I think it'll do stuff all good, we'll all feel worse about the economy, but we'll all be paying for it for years and years to come.

"then it's difficult to schedule a Drs appointment a week on Tuesday (which is the only time you can get an NHS appt) so you end up basically having to go private for treatment... "

EH?

Yes the youngvisiter - I know very few people who earn that kind of money and yet we still live in London. I even get to go on the odd holiday!

Have you tried to get a Drs. appt at short notice in the SE?????????

it's impossible!!!!!

If you have a demanding job, where taking a whole day off for a drs. appt. isn't possible, then you basically HAVE to go private.

That's NOT knocking the people who work in the NHS - they do a super job in very difficult conditions - but it still doesn't change the fact that it's difficult to get appts., you are rarely seen on time and often have to wait considerable time to be seen.

The alternative is a private drop GP service where you will be seen immediately / promptly.

It's a no win situation, and I'm really on the fence on this one, but if I had to make a call, I'd say the demoralising factor is a bigger negative (demotivating people who earn that sort of money and motivating younger people to want to even bother) than the positive the extra money will do (given that most of the money will be wasted on paying back the trillions of interest on all the friggin' loans the govt. have taken out).

Not been my experience at all Haribosmummy. I get NHS doctors appointments within 2 days at my surgery, got an NHS dentist's appointment today that I booked yesterday and my GP's surgery is open late Wednesday evenings and from 7am on Tuesday mornings.

I live in zone 2 3 miles from Marble Arch. It's not the same experience for all of us.

haribo, it's really not impossible. I get same-day appointments all the time. I know that some surgeries are better than others at facilitating this, and that it can be difficult for people who work full-time (whatever their salary level), but it's really not a universal problem.

"If you have a demanding job, where taking a whole day off for a drs. appt. isn't possible, then you basically HAVE to go private.

what utter rubbish, what are these jobs were you are so important you can't take time off for the doctors?

were = where