...to think that the policeman at the G20 protest wasn't being unreasonable?

[Naetha]

Is it just me, or do other people think that the media furore over the female protestor who got hit with the baton has been blown all out of proportion?

The woman aggressively confronted a policeman at a generally violent/aggressive protest (certainly not a passive, non-violent demonstration) several times, when the policeman was already being confronted from two other directions by other angry protestors. The first time he pushed her away, she came back, the second time he backhanded her (not particularly hard), she came back and then eventually he used his baton.

Is it just me that thinks he was just doing his job in keeping the peace (which this woman was trying her hardest to disrupt) and shouldn't be made a scapegoat for this media farce?

People who talk about this as police brutality make me laugh - look at Myanmar, Thailand, South Africa, Haiti, even the US. This is nothing.

Whilst violence (disproportionate or not) is NEVER acceptable from either side, I think the police get a very rough deal.

It's all very well sitting typing adverse judgements in our calm sitting rooms but being in the middle of a large baying angry crowd is not pleasant.

If that crowd had got out of control and injuries and fatalities had occurred, the police would be the first to be blamed. So they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

actually counting, if you look at the footage, the police officers featured were lashing out.

Some of us have seen how the police often behave at demos. It's not unknown for the police to cause aggro by attacking demonstrators. Or to use a charming tactic with one police line pushing from their side, another pushing from the other side etc. etc. so demonstrators are shoved around with nowhere to go.

We've just had the 20th anniversary of Hillsborough. Where the police could see damn well that people were dying, but still chose to kill people by refusing to open the gates of the pens AND by shoving people who had managed to escape back.

Poor Mr Tomlinson died after he was attacked by the police.

Bad timing to try to pretend this is all about reasonable delicate PCs who are frightened by demonstrators.

But not all policing.

Yes there are police officers who go to far & who really shouldn't be in the job but there are also officers who work their tail bones off, are dedicated to their job & don't use or condone those methods of policing that everyone is up in arms about - yet people will still chose to tar them all with the same brush & assume they are all the same in their policing methods.

No, I'm not tarring all officers with the same brush. Just wish they would extend the same courtesy to protesters.

What I am saying is that there are systemic problems with police attitudes to the policing of demonstrations and civil liberties more generally (Damien Green/ that journalist who was arrested, charged and prosecuted for receiving leaks i.e. doing her job - thank heavens the case was thrown out).

Those problems aren't trivial or down to one bad cop. And they need to be tackled. Otherwise we are moving towards a police state.

As I said at the beginning of my post, I don't think violence from either side is acceptable.

I live in a European country where all officers are armed and they shoot first, ask questions later. I still think British police get a rough deal.

Yes, they made horrendous mistakes at Hillsborough (mistakes which were not investigated sufficiently) but what were the origins of their heavy-handed tactics? Do the hooligans in every football stadium in the country who had previously engaged in years of appalling gratuitous violence bare no responsibility at all for that awful, awful tragedy?

One of my closest friends is a policeman. He is an intelligent, well-read, open-minded, kind, humorous family man. He is as aghast and appalled by the overbearing tactics of his colleagues at the G20 summit as anyone. Nonetheless, his response is that although policemen must be held to a higher standard than the general public, the demands we place on them are sometimes overwhelming.

He says that despite years of training, once faced with an angry baying crowd he feels as afraid and vunerable as the next man. Police are human after all and they have failings. They are not saints. They make mistakes either through ignorance or poor instructions from the chain of command above, or through pure fear.

While I am in no way condoning violence, all I am trying to say (not very succinctly) is that imo our expectations of them are sometimes far too unrealistic. All in all, I think they do a pretty good job.

... and yes, in case anyone asks, I have been on a protest march or two in my time ...

I know there are a lot of decent policemen. I've been burgled twice in a year and the officers who have dealt with that have been unfailingly kind and sympathetic. But to deny there is a dodgy underbelly of thugs within the Met is I think to discredit all those decent officers who would no more whack a woman round the back of the knees with their baton than they would break into a car.

I can't comment about the Met in particular SpiceMonster as I don't have enough info, but I couldn't agree more about your general point.

In fact, imo it illustrates perfectly what I was trying to express earlier, ie that the remit of the police is too wide-ranging and our expectations of them are sometimes too idealistic/unrealistic. They are just blokes and lasses like everyone else.

We want policemen & policewomen (particularly I imagine in London) who are effective, determined, dedicated and frankly have enough balls to combat hardened criminals and protect society from their activities.

At the same time, the police have to offer sensitive, calm, and "softly softly" policing in all sorts of highly charged, often physically threatening group settings.

The two sets of skills don't always lie together very easily. I'm not saying it's excusable when they fail - it isn't - but I find it a lot more understandable than some people seem to on this thread.

Upon re-reading this morning, that last phrase sounds horribly smug which was not my intention.

Just don't understand or have much patience with the attitude of some of the public in general who seem to be against the police whatever they do ...

Well, I'm emphatically not against the police whatever they do (and that's despite the fact that my father is a copper.)

I have great respect for them, and make very stern faces at people who call them pigs etc.

It's because I want to continue having respect for them that I've got no time for this sort of thing.

I expect that there are tens of thousands of police officers in the country banging their heads on their desks in frustration right now. Women & men who joined the police because they wanted to make a genuine difference to their communities by working at the coal face of difficult issues like violence, poverty, drug & alcohol abuse, prostitution, child abuse, etc etc.

Imagine you're a community police officer who has just, probably after months & years, started to build trust and good relations in a neighbourhood where drugs, drunkenness & beatings are part of daily life.

The violence from police officers at G20 was awful in and of itself, but I shudder to think how much good, careful, long-term policing will be unravelled in the wake of this.

Meeting of the Metropolitan Police Authority (public watchdog-type-thingy, May 30, City Hall, London; open to the public. Will discuss a Green Party motion condemning polics tactics at the G20 protests. Should be standing room only... think I might go along.