to think that not only is this policeman breaking the law in the aftermath of the g20 protests

[Heathcliffscathy]

but that he is also being a bit thick in not giving his identification?

I think he's sure he can get away with it. Which has been the case until now - although hopefully that might be starting to change.

it's all a farce... there needs to be one hell of an investigation

but this is AFTER ian tomlinson!!! hence my cry of bit thick i mean come on, surely they are all on defcon 10: anyone with a camera asking for id, give them it!!!

jesus loads of terrible youtube footage of this eg this

where the police are clearly attacking peaceful protesters with their hands up.

again, i'm not sure of what this benefits the police??? unless they are just psyched up for it...which i fear is the case

Why was the guy asking him for his ID?

to prove a point!!! which he did!

and because it if all of our right to ask any police man to show ID. he was asking because it wasn't showing. which it should have been.

Much as I am disgusted by what happened to Ian Tomlinson I don't really see what asking a random policeman for ID the day after and having it refused really proves or achieves TBH.

Yes they are supposed to give their ID but this doesn't really mean anything, does it?

totally disagree. it is a fundamental tenet of policing by consent that police are accountable and therefore they need to necessity to be identifiable.

I'm not sure about that clip of the peaceful protesters. There's obviously a lot of editing been done. So we see a peaceful crowd at the start of it, and then a distinctly angry sounding crowd just as the riot police move in (admittedly with some pretty shocking use of batons and shields). I reserve too much judgement on that one

fair enough FAQ although as you say, that kind of use of batons unless under hugely aggressive DIRECT threat is entirely unjustified isn't it?

and kettling is just WRONG WRONG WRONG>

Sophable, I do understand that but I think it's kind of childish to just approach random policemen with a video camera/camera phone and ask for ID just to make a point. I think it's even more pointless to then try and make it significant to all the stuff which has gone on with Ian Tomlinson etc.

There's also shouts of "foward" and "back" (not sure from which comes from which sides) - just before it jumps to the riot police moving forward.

Would be interesting to see actual CCTV footage of what happened there. As someone who has evidently been placed to film the protest is obviously going to cut and edit to suit what they're trying to show

i don't care if they were barging FAQ! you don't hit someone with a baton unless they are hitting you right?????

oh I don't know - maybe I'm a wuss - but I'd find a large crowd of baying protesters pretty threatening

right so you'd contain them. but you'd desist from beating them up right????

woudl agree that the atmosphere of a large crowd chanting at you would be very tense.

There are reports in the Guardian today about that mass arrest of people for merely daring to plan a demonstration against new coal-fired power stations (everyone has been released on police bail - clearly the cops have got nothing on them but wanted to harass the protesters and prevent the demo).

Someone who was there said they started singing 'We'll meet again' and then '9-5 what a way to make a living'. And then she was asked by the police if she liked being a terrorist, FFS!

The scientist who created the Gaia hypothesis - which has been shown to be correct - says he reckons global warming will see 5/6 of the Earth's human population wiped out, down to 1bn. Yet anyone who dares to point out building new coal-fired stations is a really bad idea is treated like an enemy of the state...

i woudlnt judge any of it until i had heard the whole story.

edam - I read those reports - they were holding a meeting after midnight in a building (or grounds of?) which they had no permission to use (a private school) and items such as bolt cutters were found.

Doesn't really sound very much like a run of the mill planning meeting for a run of the mill protest from what I read.

The protestors say they did have permission to use the building. And since when is it up to the police what time anyone has a meeting?

If anyone had done anything wrong, they would have been charged. They haven't.

of course they'd say that

And some of them were bailed with conditions they are not to go near any legitimate peaceful (and I'm sorry but plans to shut down a power station, no matter what the reasons for it are no peaceful) protests at the site.

And from the articles I've just read on the Guardian website (and a few others) none of the protesters have actively denied that they were planning on doing that (shutting it down)

and I don't know about you - but if I was invited to a meeting at such an odd time of night then I'd immediately be suspicious of what they were actually up to. I mean don't you find midnight a bit of a weird time to hold a meeting of any description??? (barring those having work meetings at midnight because they're on the nightshift)

I've been incredibly shocked at the Ian Tomlinson and policeman slapping woman footage. Genuinely thought the police had started to (slowly) change, having seen some really sensitive work from them in mental health contexts recently. I think the fact that these particular police are apparently from an elite "tough guy" branch might be significant. Maybe there is something about the approach to large crowds that is very problematic too.

I don't think this individual officer is being thick, Soph. He's an inspector so doesn't wear a numbered epaulette. (Wiki chart here.) Which may well be something that needs to change but is a systemic issue rather than him being individually unhelpful.

I see the police control large crowds on a very regular basis and think they do a damn good job

far better than france or italy where I've been in a large crowd and been tear gassed then charged by riot police for not even doing anything

I don't have much experience of police in crowd control situations, but, before seeing this footage, would have agreed with the perception that UK police are less aggressive and on the whole use more a proportionate approach than some of their European counterparts, foxinsocks. But I think the worry from this evidence is that they are perhaps becoming more like European police forces, especially with regard to a growing liking for baton use. It also seems to me that the right to peaceful protest is being slowly but surely undermined by the combative approach taken by the police.