to be pissed off at hearing how "third and fourth degree tears" are rare by people on here, mainly doulas.

[ebd]

I had a third degree tear with my second ds and have since found out that third/fourth degree tears are actually more common than people realise. I know 5 people in real life who suffered serious tearing (out of an antenatal class of 14)and my midwife and health visitor tell me they see women with these type of injuries on a regular basis. My consultant even specialise in repairing women who've experienced this. So when I read on childbirth threads that third/fourth degree tears are "not very common" it gets my blood boiling. It is common for posters with no medical experience to make this sweeping statment and although I will get flamed for saying this, it is mainly doulas who quote this to women worried about tearing or women who have had a third degree tear and are worried about it happening again. There is one poster who is a doula who just quotes the "it's very rare" line all the time". It really pisses me off. I wish these type of tears were rare but they're not. One consultant gynae friend told me that often hospitals will "massage" the figures and say a woman has had a second degree tear rather than a third as if lots of third degree tears are reported, doctors can be investigated. I know mumsnet has a disclaimer that they haven't checked the medical qualifications of anyone posting, but I think posters with no medical knowledge shouldn't be spouting claims which are factually incorrect.

out of 4 kids I had 2 forth degree tears,had to have a different type of episiotomy with 3rd baby they cut into the muscles at 90 degrees to prevent another tear. With baby number 4 i was told i had to have a c section as I couldnt get another of those 90 degree cut things and if I tore again Id be in diapers before the baby was out of em.

I have been a delivery suite midwife for over 3 years and have never delivered a woman who sustained a 3rd or 4th degree tear.

Obviously they do happen but not often at all ime.

If a woman does have a 3rd/4th degree then an incident form is completed.

Ffs

just seen it's an old thread

Me too SantasENormaSnob, saw that just after I'd posted! Sorry to pull you back to it, but could you tell me - idoes that mean that I was told mine was a 2nd degree tear so that they wouldn't have to do an incident form?

I had a 4th degree tear and it was not repaired under anaesthetic.

But I was under the impression that it could not have been avoided? It has left me with permanent problems anyway that we will not go into on here. :)

I very much doubt it becstar.

A 3rd degree usuall requires sutures under spinal in theatre and follow up with colorectal team. It is taken very seriously, as it should be. I don't know anyone that would pretend it was a 2nd degree to save work. The implications would be huge.

Fwiw some 2nd degree tears can be extensive especially if it has gone in more than one direction or there are multiple lacerations too.

Hth

Thanks for your reply - really helpful. I have needed follow up with colorectal team after developing problems, but wasn't referred at the time. I wasn't thinking that they'd be doing it to avoid work but to improve the hospital stats.

Kind of you to come back - thanks

I don't know anyone who has had one, and we're all pretty open!

Agree with EBD that women should be told about rates of perineal damage in childbirth.

Also told what they can do to reduce the likelihood of it happening to them.

I personally find it really interesting that women who have the lowest rates of perineal damage tend to be those who birth with no health professional present - even when the baby is full-term. Must be something that's going on in hospitals that's resulting in such high rates of perineal injury.

Btw, the figures on perineal tearing aren't easy to make sense of unless you know the details. I bet the outcomes for first and second time mums are very different.

WHY do people restart ancient threads like this??

Anyway. I had a 3rd degree/query 4th degree tear after delivering my 10lb8oz ds. It was stitched in the labour ward with a local anaesthetic, (not a spinal) and I have had midl incontinence ever since which they tell me I have to live with.

I will make it my mission to ensure that my two daughters are in possesion of ALL the fact, including the not inconsiderable risks involved in childbrith. Personally speaking, I wish I had had a ELC with my ds, I had two ELCs after him, under consultant advice.

I would prefer to take the risks of a ELC than be consigned to a lifetime of incontinence.

It may be rare bur its not very helpful to be told that. I had the same after my emergency csection with general anasethic. The NCT are the worst. Making out you can have the csection you want and dictate the terms. I didn't even manage that with my 2nd emergency csection with a spinal.

Humble apologies for making a few of you annoyed for starting up an old thread. 1st time on forum and never even noticed the date, just looked up the topic as wanted advice as haven't got any mates who've had the same prob. that I can ask.