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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want my dds to sleep in the cellar, and is my friend B U to report me to SS

92 replies

elfinblast · 10/04/2009 02:03

OK, I have smallish 3 bedroom house. Me and DH have one bedroom, DD's 10 & 8 share a room and DS has the teeny tiny bedroom.

A few years back, and at not inconsiderable expense we had the cellar done up. It has proper plastered walls, carpets and cute ceiling lights. It is 2 rooms and the same size/shape as the upstairs hall/back/front rooms.

It is dry, has heating, electricity and is full of crap.

My plan is to clear the crap and either let the girls have a room each (but there are no doors and you have to walk through one to get to the other so one would have no privacy) or they share a "bedroom" and have the other room as a lounge/tv/toy room.

Told my friend (well more a foaf) of my plans and she seems to think I am some sort of monster who plans to keep them locked in the cellar, and as there are no windows (well, it is a cellar) it is cruel and she will contact the authorities.

DD's will still be allowed upstairs and to see daylight. I'm not creating a jail. We will NEED another room in erm...9 months or so

My friend(ish) is being totally unreasonable yes?

OP posts:
NorbertDentressangle · 10/04/2009 12:57

I just asked DP about this (hes a carpenter/builder).

He seems to think that Building Regs would require/specify a means of escape in case of a fire (other than the main sairway), a means of adaquate ventilation and possibly also have a say on amounts of natural light.

However, by his own admission, he hasn't done a celar/basement conversion so isn't up on all building regs and also the regs change so frequently they may differ now anyway .

Food for thought anyway.

NorbertDentressangle · 10/04/2009 12:58

that should read stairway

Anifrangapani · 10/04/2009 13:00

If you are converting it to a bedroom you will need to comply with Part F and M of the building regs - fire and access.

It will need a fire alarm ( and I would also suggest a Carbon Monoxide one as well) as well as a fire door. Part M requires the access to be a certain width ( 750mm I think - I will check on Tuesday for you or 926mm if any of the intended users are disabled- I know this one).

You could also install Light Wells if you are worried by the level of natural light.

Radon should not be a problem unless you live in an area with a known risk for radon ( Aberdeen way, Cornwall, Peak District etal - check with the environment agancy). If you are in a risk area then fit ventilation to keep the air circulating.

A dehumidifier may be nessessary because of the length of time the room will be inhabited.

cariboo · 10/04/2009 13:02

Aw, give me a break! I'm always tactful on MN & in RL. It gets a bit monotonous

ChippingIn · 10/04/2009 13:06

LOL

I just feel a bit sorry for Elfin - I suspect what she really wanted was for us to tell her that her FOAF should MHOB and that what she wanted to do was fine

Not have all of us bombard her with suggestins, rules and regulations and our own neurosis and .... DH's opinions

QuintessentialShadow · 10/04/2009 13:10

Can YOU move down to your cellar? Surely she cannot report a grown up couple to move their master bedroom to the cellar so that the children can have a nice and comfy bedroom each?

ChippingIn · 10/04/2009 13:26

Quint - Elfin is expecting and wants (understandably) to be upstairs near the baby. She's already said that otherwise they'd love to have the room(s) down there...

Dillydaydreamer · 10/04/2009 13:34

Due to fire regulations you need to look at access. Due to building regulations you may find that windows are essential as a potential escape route iyswim. I think it would be better to have it as a playroom and they share a room for sleeping.
If a fire broke out they would be trapped and unable to escape, especially at night if your room is upstairs. During the day would not be so bad iyswim because if something happened you would be awake to detect it early and evacuate.
Your neighbour is being extreme and its not a reporting matter, more that she can see the dangers clearly.

Dillydaydreamer · 10/04/2009 13:40

sorry there is an echo ont the thread I shall leave now

cariboo · 10/04/2009 13:45

"...love to have a room down there"? I seriously doubt that.

Blondeshavemorefun · 10/04/2009 13:50

a friend converted her celler - she wanted a bedroom but wasnt allowed one due to planning regs, so she made it into a big den/sitting room and made the original sitting room into a down stairs bedroom for teenager

my dh also slept downstairs as he was 1 of 3 and house had 3 bedroms upstairs

Original poster
elfinblast · 10/04/2009 15:00

In reply to cariboo's DH There is NO radon risk here, and I've already said that there is a possibility that the coal chute cover can be changed and a fire escape made there. There are other options we can look into. It's going to be at least 12 months before we need kids to move rooms. So there is time to plan and if necessary make alterations.
And NO we should not be having another baby. My youngest is now 7, I'll be 40 when this one arrives. A baby was the last thing I was expecting. Seems belt and braces are not always enough, but rather than turning into an "oh no I'm up the duff what are we going to do, oh woe is us" situation we're being positive and using the situation as a sign to start getting the house into shape and using the space we have for living in rather than for storing piles of shite that "might come in useful one day" when we'll probably never use it again. No we can't afford to move to a bigger house but we can afford to do a bit to the place we have.

Making the living room into a bedroom isn't really practical due to the layout of the house. (Old terrace, the stairs and kitchen are rooms off the living room. No separate hallway. Think a bit like Marias house in Corrie)

OP posts:
purpleduck · 10/04/2009 15:04

I would worry about fire exits too.

kickassangel · 10/04/2009 15:14

just check the building regs on this - there are limits on ciling height, light, fire escapes etc. but if you can comply with those, it sounds fine, and if you're ok with kids being down there, then it has nothing to do with someone else.
if you can meet regs on what is a 'bedroom', why not print them out, put big ticks next to them all, give them to foaf, and point out that ss may not like her interfering & wasting their time over a happy, safe family, when they have more urgent cases.

nooka · 10/04/2009 20:21

If there are two rooms in the basement then why not have one as your bedroom and one as the baby's room? It doesn't seem totally impossible. However as with all things it is all about the layout. I'd see about getting a builder type person in to advise on your possibilities for more light, better ventilation and an escape route. Also might be worth asking your neighbours if any of them use their cellars, and how they have set things up. Nothing wrong with the idea in principle - sounds very sensible, and if you can make the practicalities work (which is basically about cost) and if the space appeals to your girls then there is nothing wrong with having bedrooms in the basement. Where I lie now (Canada) it is the norm to build houses with the main room on the ground floor and the children's rooms downstairs in the basement. I can't say I think it is ideal, but so long as you use all the tricks to maximise light, and it is dry and pleasant I am sure your girls will be very happy there.

cariboo · 10/04/2009 21:44

Sorry for my flippancy - money's tight for us, too but the idea of putting your kids in the cellar is not easy to accept. Someone mentioned that you & the baby could sleep down there... no blackout curtains needed for the baby's room, at least!

LackaDAISYcal · 10/04/2009 21:56

I'm almost certain that these cellar rooms wouldn't comply with building regulations as living accommodation and as such if there were a fire or whatever you may not be covered on your buildings and contents insurance if they were being used as bedrooms.

the lack of natural daylight wouldn't bother me if it were just a bedroom, however the lack of ventilation would.

Is there any way that you can incorporate a window just below the ceiling of these rooms, as basements are often not completely underground; there is often a portion of the wall that is above the external ground level.

If you plan on doing this, and it sounds like you need to; it's certainly wirth doing it correctly; if only for the added value it will bring to your property if you decide to sell at some point in the future.

but, I'm a structural engineer not an architect, so I can't be too sure about the building regs issue.

LackaDAISYcal · 10/04/2009 21:59

and OMG have just read that someone is berating you for having another baby

AIBU or not

odisco · 10/04/2009 21:59

Its more concerning that someone would think this is worth reporting to SS! As if they have nothing else to do with their time. Even if she got it right once doesn't mean that SS haven't cottoned on to someone who is reporting for the sake of it.

You could head her off of course by discussing it with SS yourself before you do anything . And if they have a go - cry! (always works for me...)

COI - worked in the NHS with at risk children

abbierhodes · 10/04/2009 22:04

I think it sounds lovely tbh. The OP has answered all the questions as far as I can see about the safety aspects, and it sounds as if she is taking it seriously to me.

I think the FOAF is a nutter, and Cariboo's DH clearly has issues of his own.

odisco · 10/04/2009 22:12

Cariboo - has your dh finally had a G'n'T? Sounds like he needed one

cariboo · 10/04/2009 23:24

He needs more than that, odisco! He's sleeping beside me here, arms folded & frowning... a tense man.

Original poster
elfinblast · 11/04/2009 00:19

Thanks again.

LackaDAISYcal I did already mention that the ceiling of the cellar is about 9 inches above pavement height, so their is scope for a small window at the front and the possibility of digging down a bit in the back yard and making a bigger window. There is already ventilation. We used to use the rooms quite a lot. The front was a play room for the kids and the back a computer games room for us. We still have a video player hooked up to a portable telly! However the kids grew out of the toys and the consoles moved upstairs to our bigger better TV and the clutter took over.

We really did spend a lot of money making it habitable, with the idea that one of the kids could maybe use it as an "apartment" when they were older. It's just we need it sooner rather than later.
All the work was done properly. There is ventilation, heating and no damp.

It's not like I'm chucking them into some old dusty spider infested dungeon. It really is very nice!
I must find the before and after photos and scan them.

Our street is built on a bit of a slope. We once went into a cellar a few doors up and they had to dig down a couple of feet to make it big enough to stand up in, where-as ours is plenty high enough. I can just touch the ceiling if I stretch up on my tip-toes (and I'm 5' 4")
I do know someone round the corner who only has 1 room in the cellar and their teenage daughter is quite happy sleeping in it.

Foaf knows my cousin and her best friend from school. Cousin and I are v. close and her best friend is lovely, I've known her 20+ years. Foaf moved away ages ago but came back to the area about 5 years ago and looked them up. She is admittedly a bit strange. Trouble is, when she moved back she suspected her neighbour of abusing his wife and child, reported them and was sadly very right.
Now she phones SS at the drop of a hat and on occasion they have visited as a result.

Blimey, that's got a bit long hasn't it!

OP posts:
dittany · 11/04/2009 00:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
elfinblast · 11/04/2009 01:33

We are going to check the regs etc, and I would love to sleep down there all the time myself (bit of an old goth so living in a cellar appeals).
We could sleep down there and give the kids all the upstairs rooms BUT to have 4 children and a whole empty floor separating us while we sleep seems a bit wrong.
The girls are 10 & 8 so will probably be nearer 12 & 10 when we imprison move them. So if one is poorly in the night the other can come and get us (as they do now and we are only in the next room).

Baby (when born) won't go into it's own room until 6-12 months old anyway so there is plenty of time for any alterations to be made.

OP posts:
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