AIBU: To object to "lending" SIL £2000!

[Rachel2796]

Am I being unreasonable to object to lending my sister-in-law £2000 for some business project she is embarking on (something about supplying computers...)

My family and I live in Devon. My husband is from Kenya and most of his family live there. We moved here after we got married in 2007.

For some unknown reason my husband's family think we are loaded (only justification is that we live in the UK). We are not. My husband is a builder (not much work at the mo) and I work 2 days/week doing admin in a hotel. We have one son - 10 months old.

We do live in a nice house by the sea but we rent it since we are not in a position to get a mortgage.

We get regular requests from my husband's two sisters to "lend" them money for various differnet things. I usually don't even get to hear about it since my husband just say's we can't afford it but sometimes he asks me and it makes me so angry!!!!!!!

Last month it was because his youngest sister had passed her driving test and instead of going out and getting a cheap banger she decided to buy a band new Toyota Vitz (Yaris). Brilliant idea. She couldn't afford the repayments and the car was impounded. Who did they call? Us.

My car is 8 years old and my husband's is not brand new so why should be pick up the pieces for her mistake?

Both sisters are working for multi nationals in Kenya. Both have been to university. They live together with their daughters (1 each - no fathers) in a nice house in a rich suburb of Nairobi.

Finally, it might be different if I thought we would ever see our money again! In fact I would put money on not seeing it again or waiting years and hearing every excuse under the sun before it materialised.

My huband thinks he should help out his family and he says he feels bad because every time they ask he says no. He said that he wished he could have his own bank account instead of our joint account but as I stay at home Tue-Fri with the baby and we rely on his wages to support the family so he'd end up paying it all back out again anyway.

I suggested he either:
a) say no and ask them to stop asking!
b) give up cigarettes and use the money to send to them
c) give up alcohol and use the money to send to them
d) sell our old car which is at their house in kenya (i'm sure they use it) and give them the money but he refuses to sell it (worth around £3000).

SORRY THIS IS A BIT OF A LONG RANT....!

YANBU

Does he want his own bank account so that he can say yes?

I think it is part and parcel of living in the West and having family in far flung economically struggling countries. I know many people who have family overseas who regularly send 30, 40% of their salary to them, whether they can afford to or not.

It sounds like his sisters are more than capable of supporting themselves financially so to rely on their DB is

YANBU

Its very cultural. You and I might find it out of order, but in some cultures it is the resonsibility of the well off members of family to support rest. The problem is with the divide between their understanding of your situation and the reality of it. Which they don't really ever do.

All sympathy, its a toughie, but they are not being scrounging toads in the way we would understand it.

Maybe... but I think he thinks somehow if he has his own account he will have more money if that makes sense?

But he wouldn't as he is the main earner all the bills etc would have to come out of his account.

Unless he wants to swap and have the baby all day and I'll go to work :p

I don't really agree with the "it's cultural" argument. My husband is also from Kenya. He is one of 10, 6 brothers, 4 sisters. An average of 3 children each. His mother is widowed. She lives in a small village and has no mains electricity. .. etc etc etc (trying to give picture)

Never once, in 11 years of marriage, have any of his brothers, sisters, neices, nephews or his mother ever asked us for money, nor would they dream of doing so.

We've done things for them, like putting his mum an indoor loo in, paying towards her hospital bills etc, but it's never been asked for or expected and if it was, they certainly would get nothing at all!

Perhaps your family are seeing the difference between the pound and the shilling and not understanding the costs are far higher too! So maybe, if you wanted to help them to understand, convert it into shillings! We pay KshX for accom, food KshX...make them see how expensive it is to live here.

don't believe in that, sorry. they should find other means to fund their own projects. you have your own family to worry about financially, not others.
YANBU.

YANBU tell him to tell them to ask their baby daddies and not you

Hi Rachel, your post made me laugh, not because it is funny, but because it took me back a few years!

My parents' family are also from Africa, both ! of 11 children and NOT one of my aunts or uncles made such requests BUT we now have a 'compendium' of request letters from various people that are/ have been/ wish they were/loose are or heard that they might be related to us.

I used to receive a bog-standard series of template letters along the lines of:

"Dear Aunty Lone. How are you and your chilren? We trust that you are doing well and prospeering [sic] by the Grace of God. I have uncovered a venture that can be very enabling to this family and since you are in a priveliged position to support us, we trust that you will yield to our request for £XXX. It is only through your blessing and co-operation that your family here in XXXXXXX also prosper. We pray that you will provide this important foundation that will enable us to provide for and sustain ourselves. We do not ask that we enjoy the Western lifestyle and advantages that you have come to know and enjoy; we accept that cannot be for us all. We look forward to your communication and direct response."

This coming from adults old enough to be my parents. The thing is I think your SIL is a chancer and has nothing to lose by asking. Absolutely not saying it is right or acceptable, just that if you say no, she's no worse off, BUT a yes could change everything for her and enable her to tap into her 'Cash Cow' at will.

Me, I wouldnt dignify her request with a reply. Let your DH sort it out; she's putting the pressure on him and IMO it's for him to say no (regardless of whether you can afford it or not).

Hi

YA most definitely NBU!!!

However if your husband finds it difficult, maybe a seperate personal account for spending money ( Booze and Fags!!) and an equivilent one for you could be established. It may help him understand that you are not being obstructive and that something has to give.... if he wants to suport his family that badly, he needs to give something up.

Oh and just an aside when did you last see your car?? Or has he already agreed to that for funding smething else, as it seems odd that he wants to raise £2000 from nowwhere but has a car sat in the country!!!

Good Luck

it is difficult and very cultural. When my dh and I went to kenya we were chatting to a bar man who shared the perception about how rich we were and how poor they are. We then told them how much things cost over here - eg yes we might earn 1500 per month but did you know that a loaf of bread costs one pound fifty, to run a car costs fifty pounds a week, childcare costs 200 per week etc. The guy who we were talking to started to get it when we were talking to him. However we found that in Africa culturally it is every man for himself as life is so hard and therefore it is unlikley that your inlaws will stop asking, the pressure will keep coming. I might be very wrong and I hope that my posting does not offend but that is my experience. I hope for your sake I am wrong - good luck I am with you all the way !

I read this thread to my husband and he wanted to say something.

He said it is NOT NOT NOT part of his culture to ask for or expect money and he finds it rather offensive that people think it is.

He says tough love is in order, spell things out for them, tell them you cannot subsidise them and to stop asking and to find another way of doing things.

Oh and rachel, (just out of curiosity)... dh is kikuyu, what is your huband?

Start asking them for money, do it often!

agree with Hecate.

My IL's are from Zimbabwe, and yes while we have had requests for help in the past and we did start doing reguarly payments of £40 a month for a while it was never expected of us. Those that have asked for help have always said "if you can it would be appreciated" - not "well you're loaded so help us out".

And even them the money was for basic living (food, bills, etc) - we did sort out a computer for one of my BIL's - but that's because he'd managed to get on an IT type course at University out there and needed on (we ended up paing for parts and he built it himself).

Estobi - in africa it's every man for himself???? You are joking right??? Not my experience at all, it's everyman for himself here in the UK - "I'm alright jack sod the man next to me who's down on his knees" - but I found the opposite when living out there.

i would say sorry we was going to ask you if you may be able to help us out as we have to both work really hard to be able to afford to rent the house and for amenities that your always short on money and was going to ask them for help

Agree 100% FAQ - much more community, collective responsibility, community child rearing (aka clip round the tab and being frogmarched back to your mother for another one ) and more willingness to help your neighbour, according to dh.

HecAteTheEasterBunny

My husband is Meru! I spend about a year living out there (in Karen - Nairobi) and that's where the sisters-in-law still live and my parents in law live in Nanyuki (very beautiful).

To all...

My husband has not mentioned it again and neither have I.....

Nevertheless it makes me angry just thinking about it! Don't get me wrong if one of the girls rang us and said they didn't have money for food etc we would of course help them but we are not dealing with a family from a small village here.

My oldest sister in law has a Blackberry, surround sound DVD in the house, american style fridge-freezer to name but a few things which I was quite shocked at! Not that I begrudge them anything at all - go for it I say but you can't go buying crap like that and then not have enough money at the end of the month to pay your rent!

They all went to Dubai on hols last year and when my eldest SIL found out she was pregnant she went to Dubai again for a shopping trip for the baby! She imnported an automatic washing machine (still not an everyday item in Kenya).

One thing I have noticed with Kenyans (she says being wildly stereotypical) is that they spend every penny they have and seem unable to grasp the concept of saving. Hence my insistance on a joint account ever since my husband and I were married. Say my SIL gets paid on 1st month - I would put good money on most of it being gone in the first week.

Ranting again.... sorry - my baby takes quite long naps hence I have too much time on my hands lol!

If you give it now, you will always be asked for more. Don't do it. They will think you're rich and can afford it. You are not cash cows.

Oh and my husband REFUSES point blank to sell our car from when we lived in Kenya.

He won't even discuss it.

Madness - since we moved to UK he has been once on his own for 1 week (I stayed at home with baby) and then we are going this summer with our son but we are going to the Coast and therefore won't be ussing the car which is in Nairobi.

I am assuming his sisters/brother are using the car (which is probably best as no good sitting in the sun!) and that's why he doesn't want to sell it.

I get my own back by bringing up this matter every time I am accused of wasting money. And I will continue to do so for a very long time lol!

LoneStranger

Your post also made me laugh! I can totally imagine the letter flooding in!

We are often asked when we are in Kenya to give money to various dubious causes - don't get me wrong - there are very worthwhile causes out there which badly need people's support but IMO if someome wants to give to charity they will seek out something which is close to their heart and get involved.

We give hundreds of pounds a year to an orphanage in my husbands home town and we visit the children and babies there every time we are in town with gifts, books, pens etc.

I totally agree about the "chancer" thing - thank you for your advice!

"One thing I have noticed with Kenyans (she says being wildly stereotypical) is that they spend every penny they have and seem unable to grasp the concept of saving"

Tell that to my husband who is such a terrible penny pincher and feels very unsafe without a little something in reserve!

Just goes to show that there's not the typical Kenyan any more than there's the typical Briton, cos my experience is almost the total opposite to yours in every way!

BTW - "My oldest sister in law has a Blackberry, surround sound DVD in the house, american style fridge-freezer to name but a few things" made me laugh...you have no idea how many people I come across who seriously think all Africans (cos it's the one country don't you know ) live barefoot in mud huts. I blame tv.

I know I Hecate it's amazing that they think everyone still lives in mud huts isn't it.

I mean imagine if some of them have TV's or horror - have computers and internet access

doesn't look as good on the oxfam appeals, or the comic relief visits, or the 10pm news.

If it's not a mud hut, face full of flies and a pot belly, it just won't do.

I don't think they were trying to suggest that they live in mud huts because they were shocked at blackberry and fridge etc. I don't own a blackberry, or american fridge freezer, I think the poster was suggesting that they are not hard up. Why don't you ask them for money, see what reaction you get, say you are hard up this month and need some money can you send some.