To want to be accepted

[Aeschylus]

Bit of a rant incoming....

I am a SAHD, by choice I had a resonably paid job in I.T.

However when DW was pregnant she was on around 8K more a year than me, plus better benefits etc so we both agreed it made a lot of sense.

I appreciate SAHD are in the minority, but OH MY GOD, the way others react is just shocking.

let me give you what has happened since we had DS.

I start a chat with a person, eventually the conversation will go..

person" so what do you do for a living" me " I look after my son full time" person " so your unemployed then" me "no I gave up work" person " so you got made redundant?"

GRRRR why is it so inconceviable that I like to look after DS.

however this is not the worst, and this next bit is what made me give up wanting to try.

I want to socialise with DS and other parents etc, yet everytime I go to a group I am looked on like a pervert, nobody excepts group runner will speak to me, the ladies whisper, I can see I make them feel uncomfortable, when they all arrrange to go for coffee I get excluded, and it is so blantant.

I like a gossip too

I feel completeley isolated. my DW always says ignore them, but it is hard, I have feelings.

I go to one group called baby signing, on my first week there, I felt there was some nasty undertones, anyway 4 off them would not come back, I offered to leave, but the tutor was adament it was their problem, but now some weeks it is only me there, I feel crap, I cant help feeling the tutor would not be sorry if I left.

I aksed her once why they were so unaccepting, she said it was more likely their partners would not be happy with them socialising with a man

is it really that bad, is there any point me going to groups just to be looked on like a leper.

be honest would you accept a man in your toddler groups, and would you be happy to meet for coffee etc.

Oh you poor sod!

My dad bought me and my brother up (sort of through choice), and you want to know something: IT WAS THE BEST THING THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED!!!!

Keep it up!!

Where are you by the way? I am sure there are some other dads around. The local childrens centre here runs groups for dads. Check out yours.

Take care.

You asked for people to be honest, so I will be.

I would have made an effort to talk to a man (or anyone else) that I saw being excluded at a toddler group.

But I would not go out to coffee with him or invite him back to my house for the kids to play. This would be because my husband would not like it and also because I do not have male friends. I work with a lot of men and get on with them, and I did chat with men at toddler groups when my children were younger, but I do not have, and never have had, male friends. I just prefer women.

I know this is awful, but at least by admitting it I can give some advice!

Try and organise get togethers so that you and your wife become friends with other couples. That makes it a lot easier for jealous husbands and their wives who are unsure around men to become friends with you. It will then be much easier for you to meet up with the wife during the day, because it a friendship of families not two individuals. Maybe one way of doing it would be to invite both parents to your child's birthday or some other celebration.

Go to as many different groups as you can, as you may find someone you click with and you only need 1 person to befriend you in order to get others to accept you.

Also, it is likely to just be social awkwardness that is making the women act this way; it does not mean they think you are a pervert or don't agree with SAHDs.

I feel sorry for you but to put my point of view. I am good friends with a couple where the female works and he is a sahd and when I first knew them I felt a bit uncomfortable doing things like inviting him over, arranging things with him because I didn't want her to think I fancied him! It may be partly because I am a single parent.

Over time I got to know them and with a bit of prompting from her ie 'xx would be free that day to meet up but I'm working...' I got more comfortable about it.

Even now though if I phone up I prefer to talk to her, not because I don't like him because I do just because women tend to have female friends and visa versa.

I think a bit of help from your wife may be whats needed. E.g. as a couple you invite a couple over for lunch, picnic at a weekend, then she says to the other woman 'what are doing on monday, do you want to go to wherever, I know Aeschylus is free etc'.

I know it must be difficult but if you and your wife get to know people then they will accept your relationship for what it is.

hope this helps

I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with a dad at toddlers etc.

Are you close to a larger town where people may be a bit more broad minded? If it's within fairly easy reach.

I hope you find some friendly parents, I used to chat to lots of dads at swimming, groups, etc.

I would have met a SAHD for coffee(my dc are at school and pre-school), but only met the ones who were on holiday, worked shifts, etc.

you should be proud

my dp and i have recently decided to share child care so i can return to my much loved (at times demanding) job,

the first week he stayed off he took dd to swim and sing class and she loved it,

they all use the 'family' changing but dp said he felt really uncomfy about it as he was the only man

dd loves him to bits and benefits from the shared daycare,

on the flip side today i went to a baby sing and sign class (not swim) and on arrival i found a dad in the class (rare)

i remembered my dps thoughts and i hope i made him feel welcome,

he was amazing with his dd and she loved having 'daddy' with her for the class

It might not help being a dad amongst Mums, but I think toddler group activities are pretty socially excruciating for everyone, except hopefully the children.

I made friends when my dd was a newborn, went to baby group when she was 6 weeks old, it took me months to become friends with others who went - but I could and did share lots of the breast feeding chat and all the other pfb stuff and we eventually bonded, but only because I, and they persevered, and we were all pretty much in the same boat.

When I had my ds, we had moved and I discovered my ds has some special needs, making friends is very hard, but it doesn't mean I can't, but it just is much tougher - because there seems to be extra barriers.

You can keep trying, but you can always go to groups just for our child's sake, and tough out the feeling of exclusion - yo might eventually make friends by persevering. I think where I have seen dads doing fairly well is at music groups, where there is a shared activity, volunteering to help is always a good ice breaker.

sorry for the missing y and u

That's complete crap for you. Sorry people are being so terrible.

You have every reason to be proud of yourself for staying home with your babies. DH and I both work half-time so one of us can be with Jackbaby. I am so proud of DH for making that choice. Yesterday I had to work and Jackbaby was unwell, and DH took him to the Dr's. I will admit I felt like a crap mum to be going to work and leaving Jackbaby to be taken to Dr's by DH but he's a wonderful dad and perfectly capable...

I do feel bady for you, but think you're doing a lovely thing. I hope the situation improves for you.

Aeschylus, that's dreadful!

The only other person I have ever gone for a coffee with after a group of some kind is a Dad - he tends to work weekends and his DW works 3d a week, so he often does the weekday activities (e.g. Baby Gym, where we met again, having previously met at Babyswimming). I had been going to this group for a few weeks, not managed to really get to know anyone bar one nice lady (but not for coffee purposes), and he and his DS had changed groups because the timing worked better with his DS's naps. So, we recognised each other (I only knew his DS's name) and after a couple of weeks we "did coffee" at the local coffeeshop after Gymbabes.

There are usually a couple of Dads at the Gymbabes/tumble tots I go to; the Babyswimming had loads! Fewer on the friday, but in the saturday class I was frequently the only woman!

Good for you for taking on the SAHD role and I hope you manage to find some convivial soul who will go for coffee with you - I still haven't found anyone else and we have stopped going now, since the class time changed and when it ends is now nap time.

Just keep going Can you ask your hv if she knows of a group who has a more 'arty' style of people attending. I never thought I'd see myself at a mother and baby group me anyway my hv at the time steered me towards a particular one where there were a lot of arty types including a sahd and apart from a few small minded people who were in the minority I have stayed friendly with practically all of them. Hope you find your group and just stick with it, once they see you're their for the duration they'll get used to you.
Maybe a little article in the local press???

sorry pressed too soon. If you go to the press you will get the group you need then tailor made.

how horrible for you to be stuck with such backward narrow minded people! I really feel for you, dh is taking dd swimming this pm and it's nearly all dads! A couple of the ladies who swim are quite svelte but it wouldn't cross mymind to get jealous, how bizarre!

I feel sorry for women who aren't "allowed" male friends it's just totally bizarre! Can you travel further afield, to your nearest big city? Might be worth it, maybe there are some slightly more evolved people at these groups.

TBH I'd find the whole parent and toddler thing less toxic and more bearable if there were more men there as i find I'm allergic to large groups of women for precisely the reasons you've mentioned.

At one activity i take dd to at a local art gallery there is a "GASP SHOCK" gay man there with a child! No one bats an eyelid though as it's Manchester, unsure whether he's the childs Dad, relative or childminder but he's made just as welcome as everyone else and rightly so.

bloody nora, i'm so sorry to hear this. sounds grim. where on earth are you? men seem to get on fine in groups round here (north london) and socialise if they want to join in or set up stuff. but they are outnumbered about 20 to 1 still. have def seen more recently and spoken to a few this year who are doing it cos they've lost jobs in the recession.

Aeschylus I know how you feel... I'm a male nanny.

I have a couple of female friends (both childminders) so we tend to hangout together when it comes to visiting Toddler Groups. Saying that though, I go to a group at a local Children's Centre on a Wednesday afternoon on my own (with the children) where the staff at the centre chat with me, though other users of the centre don't tend to do so. Not sure I want them to chat to me though... would mean that I would interact less with the children.

I'm reading this thread with interest, to see if I can pick up any tips on how to be more accepted.

I think it's crap but I sort of understand it. In any group of women, the one who approaches a bloke to introduce themselves is seen to be flirting. (VAST generalisation of course, but often true!) And it is also hard to talk about post partum stitches in the presence of a man you don't know - sad but true. Women like to maintain at least a modicum of mystique around the male population, so guys joining in the "I scraped poo out of my fingernails again this morning" chat is a tricky one, it breaks the mould a bit and that's not easy.
I'm not in any way saying that your experience is good, it ISN'T! but I think I can see why it's happening.

Can you get your dw to come along to a session or two? Maybe she can break the ice a bit, you can introduce yourselves a bit, and you can also then clearly demonstrate that you are not in any way flirty or on the lookout! (And as you are very clearly not gay, this is important...)

I really hope it improves - if it helps I would talk to you if I were one of these mums, maybe because I'm an older mum and care less about what people think!!!

Aeschylus (love the name by the way! I love Greek mythology!).
I would welcome you in my groups! I have a good friend who works 5 days a week, and DH does shift work so he does most of the during the week care of their ds. Both of them have said how frustrating it has been for the DH to get out into groups with their son, which is a real shame because he is a lovely bloke. I've been suggesting groups to him where I have seen other SAHDs for him to go to.
I would never occur to me to not talk to him, I'm always pleased to see him and his ds. There are a couple of groups who are welcoming to him, thank goodness (I think because they know his dw) but he still feels a bit excluded from others.
Even if I didn't know him I would still have gone up to talk to him if no-one else is because I'm actually quite a shy person myself and so understand how intimidating (not that I'm suggesting you're intimidated!) going into a room full of strangers can be. And I wouldn't care if people gossiped about me either - I'm secure enough in my relationship to know that I can be friends with other men (in fact I have quite a few male friends, just as DH has a few female friends) to not let such pettiness bother me.

Please don`t let these Narrow minded woman put you off from doing the groups with DS
Its their problem/insecurites not yours

I have 2 SAHD that I am good friends with and through them I have become good friends with their wifes.

I'm astounded by your experience. How awful for you.

Where in the country are you? (Sorry if you've said, I've only skimmed).

I would advise you to keep on trying, because there must be some normal women in your area. One of my good "mummy" friends is a SAHD who I met on the toddler circuit and got on with. He's not excluded from the various coffee mornings, birthday parties and classes. Anyone with a problem with him would get pretty short shrift from everyone else I hope. There are a few SAHDs knocking about in our area. I think a few of them get together for some dad time with the kids every so often.

Actually, we don't invite him to the occasional girly night out on the town I suppose, but I really don't think he's offended or wants to come. Anyway, we invite his wife, so someone has to stay at home and look after their kids. He goes on the dad nights out.

The point of all this is that it can be done and I think you must just have met muppets. Good luck. I reaqlly hope things get better for you, and quickly.

Aeschylus - I'm horrified! I'm in a small town in Norfolk too but I've never come across this attitude. There are a handful of men who are regulars at the toddler groups I've been to and none of them have been treated that way, infact dd1's best friend has a sahd and he looks after my 2 dds regularly.

My only advice is keep looking, there will be a friendlier group somewhere, is it feasible to try Norwich? Bigger place, broader minds etc.

Oh, and try surestart, they run Dads groups.

Aeschylus - I live in north west norfolk. If you're anyhere near you're welcome to come and join us. We're relatively new and would welcome anyone

I go to a surestart group, and there's a young dad who takes his daughter there.

Toddler groups can be CRAP for this sort of thing. They are bad enough if your child has special needs, or even something as pathetic as where the other children go to school but to exclude one half of the population is ridiculous. Find a different one!

If your in Leicestershire, the Melton group has a few dads, this I know for a fact.

Just seen you said Bircham. Thats pretty close to me about 5 miles) . Close enough if you want to join us. We're not a typical group in that we don't do much organised stuff more tend to sit around and chat but it might be a good way to meet other parents in the area.

Aeschylus - don't worry, women can be like this to each other too!

THe playgroup I used to go to had a few dads and everyone seemed to mix well. One of my friends DH was a part time SAHD and we used to meet up often until I went back to work, I think he had simialr problems but not as extreme.

Asfraid I don;t really have any advice, just want you to know that not all mothers would treat you with suspicion as i hope you can see on MN.

Good luck and don't let the bitches get you down!