AIBU to be sad and shocked by this article?

[LittleDorrit]

Have just been reading this:

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/mar/18/child-poverty-labour-eradicate-promise

and I am shocked by the conditions this family is living in, but in particular how little/what sort of food they are able to afford.

It's not so much an AIBU issue, but just wondered whether others in similarly difficult circumstances think this is typical, or whether the mother could try to buy other types of food (e.g. rice, lentils, etc.) or perhaps be able to afford to spend a bigger proportion of her budget on food... £20 is very little.

Well, I'm a big fan of the welfare state and I'm happy for my taxes to help fund those who need it (I was on benefits myself for a year).

But sometimes my beloved Grauniad goes too far.

Like a few eeeks ago, this guy wrote a very long article about the absolute misery he and his wife suffered at the hands of a small group of kids in their ex-coucil block. The kids had attacked them, spat at them, kicked their door etc etc, and this was triggered by the guy asking them not spit and smoke cannabis on the landing.

One smug git wrote in to complain that the man 'should have treated them like human beings' or some such absolute shit.

People like that think that anybody who is poor is automatically in the right, and anybody who is not poor is automatically wrong. It's just as bad as the normal kind of snobbery imo, and assumes that nobody can help themselves in any way.

well said greensleeves

I agree Morris the poverty trap is just that and is about so much more than just money.

I am not opposed to welfare exactly, obviously anyone can need a leg up and there are people who simply cannot look after themselves.

There does just seem to me to be a bit of an underlying motive for some of it.

Zoe William's piece the other day about alcohol prices reinforced this for me. It suits professional/employed/well off people for those in the "underclass" to drink themselves to an early death. They can talk about how sad it is and what can be done, but human societies NEED someone to be at the bottom, in order for someone else to be at the top.

Just a random thought, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. I think that is where a lot of the "middle class" guilt thing comes from. People feel guilty because they know deep down that if everyone started acting sensibly then there is simply not enough to go round.

I think the Guardian needs to post ALL the facts and all of the budget for the article to be meaningful.

From Dilemma456 we have the income figures:

"All her housing costs are paid and presumably her council tax too? I assume her older child at least will be in reciept of full school meals.

Her weekly income appears to be:

£33.20 child benefit (£20 for first child, £13.20 for second)
£85 income support
£51 tax credits

Total = £169.20.
That's a total of £8798.40 a year or £733.20 a month."

I would estimate gas/electric at £100/ month
Debts were about £70 per month although not everyone would have these to pay
I would budget £30 per month for the TV license and phone.
This leaves £533.20 for groceries, clothes, travel, one-off items. Is there more stuff to pay for regularly? If not then I think £90 per month for food seems a low budget allocation.

And if you're going to nit pick this poor lady, then it would be obvious to anyone who read the article that if Louise came into £500 she wouldn't be buying fags because she doesn't smoke.

FGS!

And how do you know she didn't put her children's father's name on the birth certificate? He wasn't some nameless one-night stand.

Some of your folks would love to bring back the workhouse. But only for women and children, of course, the bastards who swanned off on their families without a second thought, much less a bob or two.

This was my life exactly (except i had DP) about 3 years ago.

I lived in a grotty half way house with dp and ds.
I did my food shopping on £9 a week and we had £80 a fortnight JSA to live on.
We managed as this lady is doing, god it can be humiliating walking round Tesco adding purchases up on a mobile phone calculator, but you manage fore your kids.

I admire this lady because i know how damned hard it is.
She is doing her best.
I would still be there is DP hadn't managed to get a job, she doesn't even have that option open to her at the moment as it would take cild care and like she said her CV isn't anything to look at.

I hope she gets the break she needs.

im preparing to be hated for this, but i think that in comparison to many countries in the world she is wealthy an should be grateful for what she has.

she and her children have a roof over their heads which is maintained by the council so she doesn't have to worry about repairs. they have free education, dental, healthcare and prescriptions and every week she is given money for nothing. Ok so it may not be enough for her to be extravagent, but it is enough for her to feed her family with.

Go back 100 years ago, or go to some other countries and she would be on the streets begging with no hope.

she is able to train whilst her children our at the free nursery and school she is studying computer skills for free.

what's the problem and why all the cries of anguish? because her daughter is angry that they can't eat cake? i can't believe that the article compares this situation to africa.... they are worlds apart.

she may not be feeding her children nutrtious food or treats, but at least they are fed 3 times a day, unlike the hundreds of thousands of africans who don't know where there next meal will come from... that is true poverty.

i forgot to add that she has unlimited water, ok it's not free, but think about how privileged we are in this country to have unlimited, clean water at the turn of a tap.

This isn't friggin' Africa?! Why compare it to there?!

Everybody blamed the father of the children for this woman's situation actually expat.

And if you think my comments are disgusting you need to pop down to your local council estate and see what they think you guardian readers, the general consenus is that your a bunch of doing gooding prats to be taken for all you can.

Ilovetiffany - what, it's kind and sympathetic to begrudge a woman who's clearly living a horrible life the chance to treat her kids once in a blue moon?

Because bickering over sweets being unhealthy and trainers not being essential aside, the point is that we are able to decide, 'nah, sweets are unhealthy and trendy trainers non-essential' - this woman can't, and she (based on teh article) never has a chance to treat her kids to something while they're out and about. That to me is really sad, and while I'm aware it's the situation for many people, it just seems so unkind to (hypothetically) begrudge her that choice in the unlikely event she did come into a bit of extra money.

If you've been in her situation, well to me that makes it all the more bizarre to condemn her in the way some people have on this thread.

Fair enough to have no time for the people for whom benefits is a way of life (although I still stand by my opinion that why the hell wouldn't you go on benefits for an easy life if you've not been provided any sort of decent education and the very best propsect you have is working the fag counter at asda forever more) but this woman clearly is trying harder than that.

There is no way she was ever going to be able to pay for her children, so she shouldn't have had them, end of.

People should not have children that they simply can't afford. If you have sod all qualifications and you are not working at the age of 18 you should not be having a baby.

And 199 quid a week AFTER rent is poverty is it! My arse it is.

It's no shock. I see this all around me.

I am lucky. I have life experience
I have work experience (and I WILL work again)
I have budgeting experience
NO debts (because I know what happens when you are in debt, it's a downward spiral
I am a decent cook, and I am an excellent budgeter.
I have a good handful of good GCSEs
I am very literate, numerate and trainable
I have English as a first language

I have an ex who pays the csa
I have a father who would bail me out of anything I asked him to (although I've never had to ask)
I have a mother and a sister who do a lot of driving around for me
I have friends in the area
I have a local authority house to live in
I live on a rough but basically safe and friendly estate
I am in walking distance of Iceland and Morrisons
The town is full of charity shops, I rarely have to buy new clothes
I'm piggybacking the internet from my (consenting!) neighbour
We have a veg market 4 days out of 7 - 15 minutes walk away
There is a car boot every Sunday - where i bought my last pushchair (£3)
I amLUCKY

Losing more than 3 or 4 of the above advantages could put me in a very different position.

Presumably she trusted her partner not tto leave her. Most people do. I was ok off when I had my 2 children. Life changes.

absolutely Colditz ...

TBH I doubt the partner was a well paid professional!

with the recession, job losses at an all time high and worse to come none of us know what is round the corner

compassion costs nothing

Londonone, you'll want to be keeping your fingers crossed that your circumstances stay the same as they are now then.

Or should we take children away from people whose partners leave them? Or from people who lose their jobs?

It's just no that fucking clear cut, and if you really think it is then you're a) priviliged and b) thick.

londonone - she shouldn't have had a baby?

Sorrento - your comments on this thread are downright disgusting.

Yawn

Albeit mature...

none of us can really afford chidlren

we just hold our breath and hope a lot of the time

it's the women who keep having children dispite their awful circumstances who are thick mindalina

daftpunk
god forbid someone have a child then their circumstances change. Or are they thick too?