to think that if a couple are both very disabled that they are very selfish to have children

[selfishIMHO]

who end up being their carers?
I understand that some people become ill/disabled or have accidents. But if I had a dibilitating disease and my husband had something chronic too I would npt have children that I could not give a good life to. A life that would mean from a young age they do most if not all of the housework and help me get dressed, wash etc. It's just wrong. Those poor children with the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Having children is not a right.

(On which note is there a charity that does that? Organise adult nurses/carers to come into houses where children are carers and take over for as long as possible? Because I would be happy to start shifting spare cash in their direction.)

yabu, DON'T JUDGE. wHY SHOULDN'T THEY HAVE KIDS? oops capslock again.

I think the OP has a valid point, she is not saying ALL disabled parents are selfish for having children she is saying it is Selfish if you have children who you know will end up being your carers, and i agree.

I feel the need to apologise here, the OP is obviously BU, and the CR thing just made me say 'well why is he coping alone? Someone outside of the family knew he was caring so why the hell wasn't he being helped out.
But am roffling at some of the comments, especially Riven, who is on top form on this thread

By Riven on Mon 16-Mar-09 20:05:11
As a disabled parent myself I've found the little buggers don't help at all.

Sorry, but that's quite funny!

but christy, that could equally well be an able-bodied parent with anxiety problems

if a disabled parent won't let their child out of their sight, then that suggests to me that there is something more wrong than mere physical disability

it is possible to be say wheelchair bound and still not need to lay the need for emotional support on young shoulders

and it is possible to be physically fit as a fiddle and still need young children for support

It's good for them. Builds up my kids' arm muscles brilliantly, pushing my wheelchair. Plus I am always around to nag them about homework and music practice.

No seriously, I have always been absolutely baffled as to why children in the UK have to act as unpaid housekeepers to disabled parents. It's completely obvious to me that there should be full-time domestic help provided for the family, to avoid a cycle of deprivation. I would also bung in things like automatic free school meals and holiday clubs for children who have two disabled parents. How mad and profligate would this actually be in terms of long-term social and economic benefit? Do any other countries do this?

Yeah Yeah everyone has the right to have children, no one NEEDS to make that choice responsibly.

Keep trashing to OP girls!!!!

It is selfish for ANYONE to chose to have children they cannot care for. Those people with profound disabilities should consider their childs rights before their own.

But no one can make that decision for them

allthreeways, i think you have put it most sensibly - lets not single out a group buti n general say - ANYONE who knowingly has a child they can't care for.

When I am emptying my (elderly) father's catheter bag and hoovering my mother's carpet and digging deep to pay the home fees, should I say to them "I think you were really selfish to have me?" - of course not. YABU

Maybe very narrow-minded people shouldn't have children. What chance do they have, growing up in that kind of environment?

Why did you namechange, OP?

NONE of us bring up our children in isolation, we live as part of a wider society. We rely on one another for lots of things at different times in our lives. Lots of people decide not to have children. Those of us who do presumably feel we have something to offer them.

OP, you are sick.

Perhaps we should only let people who fit your specific criteria reproduce? Oh wait, THAT'S EUGENICS YOU NAZI!

hsmm - thats not the same thing at all. you are an adult and i am sure your parents didn't have you knowing that you would end up emptying cathater bags.

pmsl@ dizietsma - overkill love! GODWINS LAW

"References to Godwin's Law often actually refer to a corollary of it which determines that the person who first makes an unwarranted reference to Nazi Germany or Hitler in an argument loses that argument automatically." wiki

blimey havent been on mn for a little while-theres some idiotic people about.

yabvu.cant even be bothered to write more than that.

Are you a child HSMM in the sense of not a grown up person? I think what OP is trying to very clumsily say is that she feel for children who in her opinion are probably loosing on the fun bits of childhood.

Saying that, I am convinced that disabled people who have children did not wake up one morning thinking "let's have a child so we have a free carer at home" but most likely "Let's have a child because in spite of our disability we DO have something to offer him/her!" .

In short,OP If you mean that there should be more help available for children who are carers YANBU as I think our society needs to do much more to entice solidarity and help for these families and that it should not be only down to charities but indeed to the gouvernement to put in place things that help. It is not the norm for children to care for their parents but until something better comes up it is probably the only financially viable thing for theses families to actually stay together.But YABVU if you persist in thinking that selfishness has got anything to do with the decision!

I am disabled and I think this is a valid argument.

And this is not, IMO, about the disabled not being allowed to have children, it is about whether it Is right to bring children into the world that you are unable to care for, if you can?t even care for yourself.

When we talk about young carers we?re not talking about a child of a blind person reading the occasional label/finding something they?ve dropped on the floor, or the child of a deaf person alerting them to the doorbell. We?re talking young children doing the cooking, cleaning, perhaps even helping with the physical care of a parent, washing them etc, the child essentially taking on the role of the parent, and that child missing out on a childhood, and in some cases even parts of their education, due to the demands of their role as carers.

When we have children one of the deciding factors is usually whether we are able to look after those children, both physically and emotionally. If you are not able to physically look after yourself, who is supposed to look after the children you feel you have the right to have?

If an able-bodied person was unable to look after their children people would be quick to say that they shouldn?t have children they?re not able to look after. But IMO people are afraid to be seen as discriminating if they say the same of a person who is unable to look after their children due to disability.

I am fully independent and my child has never, and will never be my carer. But if I had not been independent and able to look after myself I would not feel it was right to bring children into the world I was incapable of caring for.

Why should it be ok for the right of a person to have children to take precedence over the welfare of those children?

oh I agree with your last line(sorry not the rest as although I hope dd has sex in a loving relationship, no babies thanks)
getting respite is such a battle

Wannabee talks a lot of sense.

I'm sorry riven but I disagree.

When a parent decides to have children it is their responsibility to ensure that those children are cared for, not the responsibility of the state.

Yes the care should be in place to help people with disabilities, but if those people then decide to have children the responsibility for that is theirs.

But we ALL assume that we'll be supported with some childcare, healthcare, education. None of us do all of that stuff on our own. It's a question of degree, surely, not absolutes that some people can do everything for their children and some people can't do anything at all.
I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't consider all factors when they decide to have kids, but again, presumably people do think they have something to offer as parents.