To want to force this company into liquidation even if it means friends losing jobs?

[solidgoldbrass]

It's a magazine publishing company that I do a lot fo freelance work for -and they never pay on time, payment is 40 days after the end of the month of publication (ie about 5 months after the work is done) and it is never on time, weeks late, etc. They say they have no money at the moment, yet they are still commissioning work (and this has been going on for about a year, they pay weeks late after threats...) I have just threatened them with the fact that I am legally entitled to charge them £40 per late payment, and they still haven't paid up. If I take legal action against them for trading while insolvent and shut them down, then the editorial staff (most of whom are longstanding friends and this is not down to them) will be out of work - and I won't get paid anyway because freelances are at the back of the queue for money when a company goes down... Has anyone else had a similar situation?

I wouldn't necessarily want to force them into liquidation, I wouldn't be doing any work unless they paid in advance thouugh.
Do you KNOW that they are trading while insolvent?
Have you issued a small claims notice?

Um, daft question, but could you find other work instead of subsidising this company? (I'm freelance too - aware it is a cold, hard world out there so not easy to replace regular gigs atm.)

No similar experience directly but I do know business and imo it sounds like if you don't then someone else probably will so the outcome will be the same.

Get in the front of the line now and start proceedings. at the situation for you.

There's a big leap between being late in paying for articles and trading while insolvent ...

walk away

obviously they are giantly taking the piss out of you but it doesn't mean they are trading while insolvent

bet you get your money if you sue in small claims

but you may not work for them again - you ok with that?

I can't walk away until I have found something to replace them as a source of income: they represent about a quarter of my monthly income and I have my housing benefit/tax credits assessed to include them as a percentage of income, yet because they pay so late and erratically I am in debt up to my arse (having to take out Provident/payday loans so the rent is paid). They repeatedly claim to have no money, yet are still commissioning work and buying in new titles - so I just don't know whether filing suit against them for insolvency will push the company into liquidation or not - or just scare them into paying.

Unfortunately there are some companies out there who as a matter of course pay late.

If you force them into liquidation you have said you will be unlikely get your money and you'll get no more work from them. And when your friends have moved onto to other magazines do you think they'd recommend you?

I would keep chasing your money, charge them the interest and look for more work elsewhere so that you are not so dependant on them.

Stinks I know

SGB, you said 'If I take legal action against them for trading while insolvent and shut them down, then the editorial staff (most of whom are longstanding friends and this is not down to them) will be out of work - and I won't get paid anyway'

so why would you do it ???

& ditto what Tweetle said....

ChippingIn: well, to put a stop to the bastards doing this to so many people on such a longterm basis.

When you contact the company, are you speaking directly to the person responsible for paying the bills? I work in the public sector and commission work from freelancers sometimes (not editorial) but I am not the person who does the payment admin. I know there are delays sometimes, but sadly I can never give the freelancer a definite answer about payment dates as I don't deal with that side. I give them the name of our finance person so they can talk direct to them.

Also, if a freelancer says they are coming in person to collect their payment, this does push things forward - even if there has been some confusion our end about payment, knowing the freelancer is turning up at 11.00 am on Monday morning for their cheque does get things moving.

Do you know who actually does the finance admin and can you nag them direct? ie each week or even daily if necessary?

Any chance the company can write you postdated cheques, so, even if payment is not for a while, you know when you can put the cheque in the bank.

Any chance you can compromise and get a partial payment earlier?

Have you sent them a letter telling them that you will take this action? Might be enough to put the frighteners on them. Do you know of any other freelancers working for them who are in a similar situation?

As Tigermoth says, actually going and sitting in their reception and telling the receptionist every 10 mins that you are there to pick up a chq may work.

However, any of the above may also jeopardise future work from them. But if you're not getting paid anyway, this may not be an issue!

Get a different job, one with less stress and pays you on time.

1. Stop using payday/provident loans. They are designed to get you deeper into debt and are shit. Join your local credit union instead. Much cheaper and more straightforward way to borrow small amounts of money if you need to.

1. They aren't trading whilst insolvent, they are just shit payers and trying to hold onto cash.

If you really want to take action then you could pursue them through the small claims court/make an application for a ccj against them but taking action woiuld be expensive and it sounds like you don't have the funds up front for the court fees.

The bottom line is you need to find a more reliable source of income as the freelance work you do for this particular firm is causing you more trouble than it's actually worth.

If i were you i would go to Payplan/CCCS/CAB and get some debt couselling to work out a way out of the debts that you currently have. It sounds like you are currently struggling to pay some fairly hefty repayments on top of normal bills? Are you aware that you have the option to offer token payments for a period of time to your creditors of £1 a month for example to show willingness to pay when your situation improves but to give you some breathing space to sort out the immediate crisis?

I realise i'm making an awful lot of assumptions about your situation by the way, many apologies if i am completely off the mark.

am so sorry you are having a hard time, i think idrank has given sound advice

provident are notorious , the interest is sky high

can you ebay/sell stuff in the interim.. i just found a great website where you can sell dvds, cds and computer games, musicmagpie.com.

sounds like you are in a terrible cycle of debt, but trying to close down this company will ultimately put you in no better a situation, potentially a worse one, and your friends may well all be unemployed

IDrank: Well I have been trying to find a more reliable source of income (that won't just be eaten up by extra childcare costs) but it has not been that easy: I am in my 40s with a specialist area of skills and have not had a 'proper' job for about 10 years.

Sympathies. It's hard at the moment even if you do get paid on time.

Would you consider any retraining? FOr example if you're on benefits there are courses that you can do for free that qualify you to get an admin job?
I appreciate that it might not be the sort of work that you want/enjoy but if it gave you a regular income then it would keep the wolves from the door whilst you try to build up the freelance side of things?

is there any other way of marketing your skills?

can you do any type of other work with DS in tow, delivering leaflets/papers , that sort of thing?

how old is he now?

I was thinking about this again. It sounds like the company do probably have the money and aren't insolvent.

Could you arrange a meeting with the person who gives you work - or the person who deals with the payment side? Go in, in person, and talk to them face to face about how they pay you in general - whether you can all agree on a timescale and set process. Everyone has bills to pay, including you - they must realise that.

Even if you end up agreeing that they will pay 60 days after they receive your invoice, this should be better than never knowing. Also, sort out with them what payment process they use, so you know when to check what is happining to your payment.

If that won't work, I still think it's a good idea to arrange to collect your payment in person - not camp out in reception in an angry huff - but just arrange to come in at a set time in advance, when they tell you the payment should be ready.

If they pay you by cheque, do you have the sort of current account that lets you draw out cash against a cheque as soon as you bank it, ie before it has cleared? This may cost you a bit more a month but it's a godsend if you need money quickly and don't want to wait 5 days. Look into Barclay's Premier account or similar. HTH

I'd walk away too. Hard but I couldnt personally do something where people would lose jobs through no fault of their own.

If freelance isnt working money wise then perhaps you need to take some radical action. Working partime in retails, call centres etc and possible fit the freelance work where you will get paid in around it.

Childcare is expensive but if you get HB then I assume your income is low enough for most of the childcare to be paid by tax credits so it wont leave you with huge childcare bills.

I am already doing other stuff: Avon, for one thing, and some temping, and I am on the books of a couple of market research companies (neither of whom bring in very much work). DS has 2 days a week in nursery, which tax credits cover, or just about. THe freelance for this particular company makes up about a quarter of my income at present - unfortunately they bought out another publishing company that I used to do freelance work for (who paid on time). I am constantly on the look out for something to replace the freelance income (or at least make it be like an extra treat rather than an essential when it does come).
But a lot of jobhunting meets the response that I am 'not suitable'/overqualified and it is not the greatest time to be chasing jobs just now anyway.

It sounds like you are doing all you can. Do you know any of the other freelancers at this company? Can you compare notes with them on how they get paid? Can your friends in the editorial team push for you from the inside, to get your pay quicker and more reliably - as its the recession, you have every reason to ask them for help in this.

Trading whilst insolvent is illegal.

Don't do any more woek until you are paid for what you have done and look elsewhere. Forcing them into liquidation won't help you get paid and will hurt more people so YABU to think about it imo.

Whether you stop taking on commissions from them, or get them liquidized, the end result is the same: 1/4 loss of earning for SGB. The only other difference is that you cut off your contact network if you put their editorial staff out of work.

Could you add some legal jargon to your invoices, state clearly tax date, invoice due date, and your terms and conditions, and then RE-INVOICE with your late payment charges when the payment due date has passed?

poor you

think you said before you were a journalist (did you or am I making that up?)...anyway, enormous sympathies because I know times are very very hard at the moment

think it's all very well people saying get another job but when there's virtually nothing out there, is incredibly hard

Have you sent them a legal letter?
I would charge them the late payment fee. Charge them interest too if you can. That will help cover some of your costs.

It's cash flow management on their part.

Also don't forget that companies often try and trade out of difficulties. By carrying on commissioning work, they are hoping to publish and earn money from the advertising (though I know it's woeful at the moment).

Do you know they are insolvent because they may well not be. There are other avenues you can take to chase this debt. Ultimately, I guess you need to decide that if you really cannot find anything else, whether it's worth pricing their shiteness into your price (i.e. upping it) or whether this would put them off.