Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is tantamount to child cruelty?

82 replies

70schild · 10/03/2009 23:37

Or maybe I am massively over reacting?

My friends is refusing to give her little girl calpol to reduce her temperature as she claims it is counter-productive.

She is saying that a raised temp is the bodies way of killing off a viral infection and so we shouldnt interfere with it.

I always thought that a raised temp was a by product (ie consequence) of the body fighting off a virus (an indication that the immune system was working)

She admits that her daughter (aged 17 months) has had a temp of over 40 at times during the weekend but she still refuses to either give her calpol or even to put a fan on her.

It is really upsetting me because my little one who is the same age is just so poorly when his temp goes up and I do all I can to bring it down and make him comfortable.

I always thought it was dangerous to let their temp go too high?

OP posts:
Bigpants1 · 12/03/2009 01:00

I could not knowlingly watch my dc be uncomfortable, and do nothing. My dss have all been prone to ear infections and when they have one, they also have a high temperature, so i will use calpol/ibuprofen, to lower it.It does seem mean not to try and make your dc more comfortable if you can-especially at night,when they will probably not sleep well, if in discomfort.I also feel, as adults, we have the choice to medicate ourselves, but our dc are dependant on the decision we make, and if they could voice an opinion, they may actually say,pass the calpol and dont even think of being stingy with it.

JodieO · 12/03/2009 01:04

Agree with Kerry, my sentiments entirely. I wouldn't give calpol unless they were very hot (and I would consider 40 very hot) or unless they said they were in pain or looked "ill". It is better if you can leave the body to take care of fever itself.

seeker · 12/03/2009 05:45

I actually think - and I know this is an unpopular view - that once they pass babydom, they should start to learn that sometimes feeling a bit poorly but getting on with life anyway is part of what being human is all about. Of course I'm not talking about ear infections, or really high fevers, but I know lots of people who give calpol whenever their child is just a bit off colour, and I don' think it's a good idea, physically or psychologically.

But I also think that, unless your child has specific health problems, you shouldn't own a thermometer!

Ineedmorechocolatenow · 12/03/2009 07:33

seeker - 'But I also think that, unless your child has specific health problems, you shouldn't own a thermometer!'

Why?

liath · 12/03/2009 07:50

I don't have a thermometer at home. I go by how ill the child seems, measuring the exact temperature won't change how I treat them. However that's just me and I think a lot of people find them useful - so long as they don't rely on fever alone to judge how ill the child is.

NICE published guidelines quite recently for care of young children with fever www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG47NICEGuideline.pdf and they caused a bit of controversy by stating that antipyretics (ie calpol & ibupfofen) shouldn't be given to children with fever alone and that they were ineffective in preventing a febrile convulsion and shouldn't be given specifically to prevent one!

Nabster · 12/03/2009 07:52

Maybe she needs to see a child having a febrile convulsion?

AnarchyAunt · 12/03/2009 07:53

I agree with seeker.

We don't have a thermometer, I rely on looking at and listening to DD to tell me if she is ill. You can tell if a child has a dangerously high temperature without knowing to a percentage of a degree how high. So far, I have never felt the need to give DD (5.11) calpol for a temperature, in fact she's only ever had it for teething pain when her back teeth were coming through at about 2.6. We do have some sachets in the cupboard but DD actually refused it the last time it was offered.

When DD was 3 and I was at college, she went to a nursery every day. One day she was a bit sad and snuffly, but said she wanted to go, so I took her in and explained to the staff that I would leave my phone on and come to collect her at any time if they felt it necessary. When I went to pick her up she had spent the whole day crying and trying to sleep - but they hadn't phoned me because they "had taken her temperature and it wasn't too high"

I do occasionally take painkillers if I feel too unwell to function without them, but I am a single mum and I don't have the option of dropping everything, going to bed, and being nursed while I sleep it off. If I could do that, I would much prefer to.

AnarchyAunt · 12/03/2009 07:58

BTW my younger brother used to have febrile convulsions so I know how scary they are. My parents have always said they never had any warning because it happened so fast, before they had a chance to realise how high his temperature was, let alone time for any drugs to bring it down. AFAIK it is the sudden rise in temperature that causes them - there is no exact danger point.

independiente · 12/03/2009 08:51

Haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this has already been said.
I seem to remember that bacteria and viruses tend to thrive at the same temp as us (or thereabouts), and in fact do very well at 37 degrees. Therefore, letting the temp hover at around 38 or even 38.5 does indeed help to finish them off.
This is really only helpful for a day or two - beyond that it starts to become quite wearing for the body. Certainly a temperature going to 40 and beyond, for more than 24 hrs is going to become counter-productive. In young children, the worry is the rate of the climb in temp - at that age, the brain cannot deal with rapid temp rises and this can lead to convulsions.
No, I don't think this is tantamount to child cruelty! I think your friend does need the balanced facts, but also the reassurance that you understand she is just trying to do what she feels is right for child.

Lizzylou · 12/03/2009 08:55

I would give calpol, had to call 999 as DS2 had a high temp and went "floppy" lips turned blue and his eyes were vacant, the first thing the paramedic asked was if he had been given calpol (he had, but only just before he went floppy)and he was carried to the ambulance in just a nappy.
That was the scariest moment of my life.
Would always give calpol/ibuprofen now.

independiente · 12/03/2009 08:56

Wanted to add: IMO a temp of 38/39 can be managed with fanning, cool compresses, plenty of fluids etc. I wouldn't reach for the calpol. But I would be checking temp fairly regularly in an infant - if the temp was rising quickly, that would be the time to give some medication.

independiente · 12/03/2009 08:59

I think in Lizzylou and anarchyaunts examples, the temp rise was clearly very rapid. so there is no one-size-fits-all answer. Lizzylou, sorry you had to go through that. The paramedic probably asked that because it would determine how much more thay could give him - so as not to overdose.

FrannyandZooey · 12/03/2009 09:05

child cruelty? you silly person

Lizzylou · 12/03/2009 09:26

Thanks Independiente, it wasn't a febrile convulsion, they weren't sure why it happened. It was awful tough and v scary.
As soon as he got to hospital he was fine, then we had a very interesting few hours running around the childrens ward with DS2's nappy off trying to get a wee sample (they wanted to rule out a UTI).
I am v cautious now, DH is great though as he couldn't perspire as a child and used to regularly overheat.
If either get a high temp now, it is calpol, strip em off and get them in a cool bath.

Lizzylou · 12/03/2009 09:26

I obv mean if either of my DS's get a high temp, not DH obviously!

Original poster
70schild · 12/03/2009 12:27

Thanks for all your messages and sorry for abandoning thread for a while.

I agree that the term 'cruel' is a tad over the top but then again, is it? Her little one is still ill, high temp, being sick now and constantly crying an she is refusing to even remove layers of clothing.

At school gates this morning, her little one was still heavly wrapped up with a hat/blanket (looking awful).

I asked how he was and she relied 'still miserable'. I just can't quite help but feel that she has got this idea into her head that she needs to half cook him in order for the virus (or whatever it is) to go.

I might add that this is a women who would medicate herself at the drop of a hat - not necessarily right - but surely some calpol at this stage woint hurt?

To me, he looks very poorly, very miserable and very hot but she seems to think that she has a point to make

So maybe cruel afterall?

I just came home feeling sad and helpless this morning

OP posts:
AnarchyAunt · 12/03/2009 12:34

I thought this woman had a DD

Original poster
70schild · 12/03/2009 12:39

No, she has a son and I have a daughetr of same age. I got it wrong way round in OP. Does it matter?

OP posts:
Original poster
70schild · 12/03/2009 12:40

Also appreciate that my spelling and grammar are rubbish as usual and at the best of times can't rememebr my own name!

OP posts:
Original poster
70schild · 12/03/2009 12:42

I would feel happier if she unwrapped him so that he felt more comfortable - that would be my natural instinct.

OP posts:
ElenorRigby · 12/03/2009 13:50

I think the reference to child cruelty is a little OTT.
As for raised temperature, I'm a very neurotic mummy, for the least thing I'm straight down to the doctors
"She's OK, MissRigby just give her a little calpol"

Bigpants1 · 12/03/2009 14:58

What can/should you do in the OPs position?I feel uncomfortable reading the update just now. My understanding, is that this child has been unwell since the w/end-its now Thursday. He is crying, hot and being sick. Has he be seen by a GP to determine if its a virus, or if there is an uderlying infection-throat, ear,chest,urine...I dont mean to imply that I think tjis is child cruelty in the widest sense, but it does seem cruel if the child is in obvious distress.I think i would have to say something to this lady, but what?Do you speak to someone in confidence for advice-your own H Visitor-without giving names?I just know i feel uncomfortable, and as said previously, we, as adults have the choice to medicate ourselves or not, our dc are dependant on us and our actions.

AnarchyAunt · 12/03/2009 16:45

You know, when DD is ill I would only ever take her to a GP if I felt she needed care/treatment that I couldn't offer her myself. She has in the past been unwell and miserable for several days, and I have never actually felt it nevessary to take her to a doctor - the one time I did get worried, it was 3am so I decided to leave it til the morning, by which time she had started to improve anyway.

Some parents have the confidence in themselves to nurse their children through illness, and to make their own judgement about when to get medical help. Some feel they need the reassurance of a GP more than others. Neither approach is necessarily wrong.

I can't imagine for a minute that the woman is merrily ignoring the fact her child is ill. It sounds like she has thought hard about how to deal with illness in her children and will be caring for them in the way she feels best.

Original poster
70schild · 12/03/2009 16:46

Hi Bigpants! he hasn't been seen by a gp yet however they were not there at school this afternoon so I am not sure why.

I am a big fan of the bodies immune system and letting nature take it's course but watching her wrap him up just seemed odd partciularly as she seemed to want to make a point of it to all and sundry. I don't know whether I am the only one who is worried about him or whether others at the school have noticed too.

This is the same woman who allowed her dog to repeatedly lick her older daughters cut on her knee as she felt that a dogs tongue must have healing properties .

In her own words 'otherwise why would a dog lick their own wounds unless it was good for them?'

Again, it doesn't matter that she may have different parenting techniques to me but I it always seems odd that she makes such a big deal about it - almost as if she enjoys winding people up.

I still feel sorry for her little one though!

OP posts:
seeker · 12/03/2009 22:21

" seeker - 'But I also think that, unless your child has specific health problems, you shouldn't own a thermometer!'

Why?"

Because you can tell whether or not your child is ill. A child can be very ill with not much of a temperature and only slightly ill with a high temperature. A thermometer could panic you or lull you into a false sense of security.

And having a thermometer will not enable you to prevent a febrile convulsion - these usually follow a spike in temperature which it is unlikely that you'll notice until it's too late, or following a period of fever so high that you don't need a thermometer to tell you the child needs calpol/ibuprofen/medical attention.

A fever is a symptom, not an illness in itself. A temperature with no other symptoms in a not doesn't need treating. And as, I said, children need to learn that we don't always feel 100%, and we shouldn't let it stop us getting on with life.