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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask why men don't read female authors books?

23 replies

mayorquimby · 09/03/2009 13:00

sorry to start a thread about another thread, but in the on-going discussion about fhm in shops someone linked an article on feminism which had the following comment posted underneath
"One thing I find interesting is how few women's authors are read by men. There may be the odd book or two, but ask the next man you meet what books he has read by women and I bet they struggle to name more than a couple. The whole "chick lit" and "chick flick" thing is hugely annoying and invariably refers to where the protagonist is female. However, male protagonist-led stuff is not defined by this. Sigh."

as it's not really to do with the fhm debate i didn't want to hi-jack the thread, but it got me thinking. i don't think i've read many modern books by female authors. i've read some of the classics, and it's not the fact that a female protaganist would put me off, because "How to be good" and "The woman who walked into doors" are 2 of my favourite books in recent years.
but it is most certainly something to do with the chick-lit era and that i never hear of books that would appeal to me which happen to be written by women.
Is this normal?can anyone recommend some modern novels?

OP posts:
laweaselmys · 09/03/2009 13:03

Just ran off to look at my bookshelf and the only thing I could find was Poppy Shakespeare by Clare Allen - which actually, DP bought and read first!

Other than that, modern stuff is overwhelmingly male. A bit sad on reflection. There does also seem to be a kind of modern male genre as well though, which I find equally as dire as chic lit.

mayorquimby · 09/03/2009 13:07

"There does also seem to be a kind of modern male genre as well though, which I find equally as dire as chic lit. "

actually yes meant to mention that in my op. it's not that female driven or created stories wouldn't interest me. but the type of female driven stories that seem to be on offer certainly wouldn't (p.s. i love you/sex and the city style stuff) , much in the same way that the lads mag style "naughty geezers doing naughty things and just looking like a really bad imitation of an irvine welsh novel" holds no appeal to me. nothing to do with the authors sex, just the subject matter

OP posts:
choosyfloosy · 09/03/2009 13:09

I'm in a book-club with my dh, and he sometimes doesn't attend because of illness. When I come back and say what the next book is, I would definitely say that his reaction differs if there is a female author. He would not say this is the case though, so it may be a prejudice on my part.

Based on the books you mention (agree with you on 'the woman who walked into doors') ... you might or might not enjoy -According to Mark by Penelope Lively
White Teeth by Zadie Smith
Falling by Elizabeth Jane Howard

choosyfloosy · 09/03/2009 13:11

I enjoyed Every Man For Himself by Beryl Bainbridge. I don't know if she is the sort of author who will be read a hundred years into the future, but she certainly writes well right now.

laweaselmys · 09/03/2009 13:12

I love White Teeth. On Beauty is quite good as well, but I think you have to be in the right frame of mind for it.

MargaretMountford · 09/03/2009 13:13

dh reads books by women authors, if they are good (Maggie Gee was a favourite of his)

MargaretMountford · 09/03/2009 13:13

Anne Tyler/Margaret Atwood/Jane Austen being one of his favourites...

poshwellies · 09/03/2009 13:19

'Eve Green' by Susan Fletcher and also 'We need to talk about Kevin' Lionel Shriver.

'The woman who walked into doors' is one of my favourite reads also.

My DH will read anything that is lying around-don't think has a preference (he is a fan of Anne Rice novels).

Margaret Atwood maybe?

ThePregnantHedgeWitch · 09/03/2009 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mayorquimby · 09/03/2009 13:22

just checked my sisters bookshelf and she has "white teeth" so that'll go next in my to read pile.

OP posts:
choosyfloosy · 09/03/2009 13:26

Cool. Hope you enjoy it.

hatwoman · 09/03/2009 13:26

Iris Murdoch and Margaret Atwood (both much loved by dh)Maya Angelou, Lionel Shriver, Irene Nemirovsy, jeanette winterson, Doris Lessing, Sarah Waters, Donna Tart.

Altagloria · 09/03/2009 13:26

This is something I have noticed too. I think it's just the widespread attitude that there things of general interest for everyone, and 'women's things'. I don't know whether it's just a reaction to the fact that most stuff is unfortunately male-centred, or that things that women like are seen to be silly and not enough to interest men.

I read books by male and female authors and can recommend these women (not an exhaustive list!):

Margaret Atwood
Kate Atkinson
Isabel Allende
Anne Tyler
Monica Dickens
Hilary Mantel
Zoe Heller

Chick lit (Bridget Jones, shopping, calories etc) is just one genre, one I don't like personally. Women's writing is not chick lit. I hate that term and the way it's used to patronise female writers/readers

Try some modern (non-chick lit) women writers! You'll like it I noticed my DH only read books by male authors and have embarked on a programme to improve him expand his reading.

FlyingMonkey · 09/03/2009 13:37

Hi, I would second the recommendation for 'Eve Green' and 'Oystercatchers' by Susan Fletcher and anything by Anne Tyler. I'm also a big fan of Rose Tremain (try Music & Silence), Kate Atkinson and Sarah Waters.

I've read 'White Teeth' & 'On Beauty' but wasn't overly impressed.

I would also suggest Susan Hill for fabulously creepy ghost stories and, more recently, crime fiction.

DegreesMinutesSecondsIsMale · 09/03/2009 13:40

I've enjoyed books by Maggie Gee, Linda Grant, Doris Lessing, Ursula Le Guin and Lesley Glaister over the past couple of years or so.

You might argue that their writing is on the masculine end of the spectrum, and I'd agree with you.

Jux · 09/03/2009 13:52

My dh reads books by women. He's even read that crap by Kate Mosse - Labyrinth? or something - which I have given a miss to.

I did tease him once about not enjoying books by women as he'd just started, and given up on, a book by someone or other which was really dire. He won't let me forget it; every time he gets a book by a women he waves it at me and says "I won't enjoy this, it's by a woman!"

Mind you, all that chick lit stuff is crap; why should anyone read it? Why would a man want to read Bridget Jones's Diary? (Why would a woman want to, when it comes to it?)

And there's a huge difference between "women's authors" and "women authors".

cestlavie · 09/03/2009 13:52

As a guy who absolutely loves reading, looking through my bookshelves and say the vast majority of the books I have are written by male authors. That's certainly not due to any male/ female bias and indeed there are a number of women represented in their including Jill Paton Walsh, Alice Walker, Joanne Harris, Zadie Smith, Isabel Allende, Mary Shelley and George Eliot.

Thinking about it, I think the reasons for me, and maybe other guys, and maybe even other people having a lot more male authored books are these:

  • with very few notable exceptions (e.g. Bronte, Austen, Shelley, Eliot) there were virtually no popular women's authors until the latter half of the 20th century, whether you're going back as far as Mallory or as recently as Fitzgerald, Steinbeck and Hemingway. If you like literature before say, 1950s or even 1960s, you're almost certainly looking at a male author
  • many of the notable/ award winning authors have been traditionally male - I can only recall one female Laureate from recent years for example, and only a couple of female Booker prize winners in the last decade. These prizes tend to attract people to their books.
  • much of the non-fiction is likely to overlap with a guy's interests - you're certainly unlikely to find many female authors writing on sport, but similarly, there's staggeringly few on economics, politics or history that I've come across.

Just a couple of thoughts. If you are looking for a recommendation I'd really recommend "Knowledge of Angels" by Jill Paton Walsh - absolutely gorgeous. I'd also have a flick through "Cause Celeb" by Helen Fielding, if only to see how much better and more imaginative her writing was before Bridget Jones.

GrendelsMum · 09/03/2009 15:39

"With very few notable exceptions (e.g. Bronte, Austen, Shelley, Eliot) there were virtually no popular women's authors until the latter half of the 20th century, whether you're going back as far as Mallory or as recently as Fitzgerald, Steinbeck and Hemingway. If you like literature before say, 1950s or even 1960s, you're almost certainly looking at a male author"

Without wishing to criticise you, that's very much not the case - the issue seems to be rather more subtle than that. There has been a high proportion of women writing professionally (i.e. for money) since at least the late 17th century, whether they chose to write anonymously, anonymously but acknowledging that they were female, pseudonymously (with both male and female pseudonyms),etc. (There may also have been male writers claiming to be female.) For example, Eliza Haywood, a professional writer in the 18th century, managed to write over 70 works, from political satire to drama. Her best novel, I'd say (available in Oxford World's Classics) is The History of Miss Betsy Thoughtless - the story of an unhappy marriage, and well worth reading today. Her potboilers include unforgettable titles like "Love in a Madhouse" (sadly not reprinted, I think).
However, it does appear that women authors tended to write in genres which were seen at the time as populist - as 'chick-lit' is now - and thus were less respected as authors then, and as a result of this among other factors, tended not to be incorporated into the canon of English writers. Novels, for example, were not necessarily well regarded during the 18th and 19th centuries.
If you look at contemporary writers and reviewers, you'll find "exceptional" writers like Austen listed alongside others who are now forgotten, both male and female. However, a lot of these 'forgotten' writers (both male and female) are being reprinted, and I recommend looking them out. It just needs a TV adaptation or two to make some of these writers household names.

For anyone interested, here's a few choice recommendations for novels by women authors who are less well known than they might be - all the books are out in Oxford World's Classics.

Belinda (Maria Edgeworth) - a great read, very much setting the scene for Jane Austen in its depiction of a young woman making her choices in the world, although you may doubt whether you can actually get breast cancer from dressing up as a man (okay, maybe Edgeworth doesn't believe you can either). I like it so much I'd name a daughter Belinda.

Hester (Margaret Oliphant) - the struggle between an old businesswoman and Hester, the penniless young girl. Definitely good.

The Wanderer (Frances Burney) - a simultaneously idiotic and gripping story of a refugee from the French Revolution. Very powerful depiction of what it's like to arrive in a strange country with no friends and no money. (But with the additional complication of not being able to tell anyone your true name, and being too honest to conceal this fact, thus pissing your benefactors off, which manages to extend the novel to about 800 pages).

cestlavie · 09/03/2009 16:09

Yes, popular was perhaps the wrong word but I guess I was using it to mean popular as of today (to explain why you're unlikely to see many female authors on people's bookshelves, particularly guys' bookshelves). I don't doubt there were many female authors writing throughout those periods but for several reasons, including those you mention, they have not received widespread recognition so the average person (like me) is unlikely to stumble across them.

LoisGriffin · 09/03/2009 16:38

My dp does - so long as they're French and cute otherwise he sticks to the blokes.

choosyfloosy · 09/03/2009 20:27

cestlavie, I think that's not true, sorry. The first half of the 20th century saw an awful lot of female writers published, and they certainly had very widespread recognition. Here's a few, many of which you definitely will see on my bookshelves:

Fiction:
Virginia Woolf
Angela Thirkell
Monica Dickens
Betty MacDonald
Dorothy Sayers
Winifred Holtby
Katharine Mansfield
E M Delafield
Dorothy Canfield
Pearl Buck
Rebecca West

History:
Cecil Woodham-Smith (definitely female btw, and well worth reading, she's fantastic)
Hester Chapman

You can argue many reasons why these authors are perhaps less popular now. Are there in fact many authors of any gender who are reprinted from the first half of the 20th century? Perhaps those authors were more widely read by women even at the time, so that critics, publishers etc, who were also more likely to be male, took less notice of them and so that academics were less likely to set them for courses? Perhaps they were overpraised because they were female, so that they have less staying power? Your guess is as good as mine.

noonki · 09/03/2009 20:51

In general I agree with you, though one of DHs favourite authors is Annie proulx.

I find the same with films and tv.

A challenge to anyone who gets the Guardian on a saturday (god it's getting rubbish, but anyway):

Get the guide (of any week, probably ever).

Go through and count the number of pictures of men versas the number women - for the first 20 or so pages.

Do it for a few weeks and you will see a theme. It' incredibly biased towards men, not say 1;2 but 1;5 some weeks.

I do it every week,( god I need to get a life) in the hope that maybe one week it will be equal, (some weeks we get closer but it seems that is only when the women picture have less clothes on )

Woman's hour bugs me for the same reason. Why isn't their a men's hour... oh beacuse the rest of the day is devoted to them I forgot.

Jenbot · 10/03/2009 14:56

DH and I both thought White Teeth was v boring, but there are some good authors named above to try!

You can always look at who is longlisted for the Orange Prize.

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