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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say no to this mum and tell her exactly why....

10 replies

strestmum · 19/02/2009 12:37

This is a tough one for me. My 8 year old dd asked to look after a new girl who joined the class. Let's call the new girl Jay.

She'd moved to UK from abroad a couple of years ago as a non-English speaker. She's not just fluent in English now, she's got a way above average vocab and is clearly very bright. She hates being in England though and constantly hankers to go back 'home'.

Before Christmas we had some problems with bullying from this child. She was pushing dd around in class, as well as out of it, sending emails saying she hated dd and wish she'd die, the usual kiddy anguish stuff. At the same time, she wanted dd to be her friend. The exclusive type of friend. Dd is never going to be exclusive with anyone. She has lots of friends and likes to be friendlyh. Jay constantly tried to isolate dd from her friendship groups, and dd's best friend got dragged into it all too.

After weeks of giving hints, tips, advice, to dd on how she should handle this herself we finally cracked and went to see the teacher to see if she could just keep an eye on things in the classroom.

Dd's friend's mum kept moaning about this saying she didn't like Jay and saying we should keep our dds out of her way. But I had a crap school life, so couldn't agree with her. Said we had to sort it. This mum then went to Jay's mum and told her my dd was having problems with Jay (hers was never mentioned)! It all came out in the wash...Jay was told to be nicer to dd, things settled both in class and out of it.

Then before Christmas Jay went back to her country of origin for a trip and came back a few weeks later. She asked dd to go to playdate. Dd said yes, but Jay then started again with the pushing, shoving, etc.

It feels like Jay wants dd exclusively. If she can't get it, she starts throwing her weight around.

I now have to go back to Jay's mum and try to arrange a playdate, but dd really doesn't want to go.

I'm conflicted. I don't want to be part of isolating this child, but I can't ignore dd's feelings.

Should I got back to Jay's mum and say, no we can't make the playdate because dd doesn't want to come. Battle seems to have recommenced in the playground.

Or...should I mention things have flared up again and ask if we can postpone for a week or two to see if things settle down?

What do I do???

OP posts:
strestmum · 19/02/2009 12:39

Forgot to say, we'd arranged a playdate before the holidays, when our respective dd's seemed to be getting on great. Then, we cancelled because we'd forgotten it was half term. Problems cropped up between now and then.
What do we do???

OP posts:
ThePregnantHedgeWitch · 19/02/2009 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

cheesesarnie · 19/02/2009 12:43

so the mum knows what went on before?if so id be straight and say things have started again and your dd doesnt want to go and you cant make her.

if she didnt know im unsure what to say-sorry!

meemar · 19/02/2009 12:44

I would do the second option. It's great that you empathise with Jay, but if your dd is unhappy you shouldn't push the friendship.

Hope things work out

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 19/02/2009 12:45

don't make your dd go to play with this girl if she doesn't want to. tell jay's mum that jay has been pushing your dd around or just say 'dd and jay are not great friends at the moment'.

MadBadandDangerousToKnow · 19/02/2009 12:46

I think your second option is the best one, because if you explain why you and your daughter want to wait a week or two it will (hopefully) create a dialogue between you and the other mum about how to tackle the bullying and spitefulness. You sound like a very reasonable and fair-minded person (sorry if that sounds unintentionally patronising) and I hope the other mum will take it in the right spirit.

Good luck!

LucyEllensmummy · 19/02/2009 13:44

This is difficult because it sounds like Jay has had alot to deal with, moving schools is tough, but moving countries is tougher. The thing is, that doesn't mean its Ok for her to bully your DD as your DD isn't responsible for her friend. It must be really distressing and confusing for your DD. The school really need to intervene here to make Jay feel more confident to get her involved with ALL of her peergroup and not relying on one girl. I guess she must feel scared when your DD shows attention to other children as she will feel abandoned, react negatively and then pushes your DD away.

You sound really sensible and caring, but your responsibility stops with your DD and it really is down to Jays mum along with the school to help her feel more secure. I think the initial mistake lays with the school for having a single person as a "buddy" it seems to have backfired here.

cherryblossoms · 19/02/2009 14:07

Hello Strestmum.

I can see why you're posting this: In a situation like this you need a range of opinions to bounce your own off, and in so doing, help you to come to some sort of conclusion about the "shape" of the situation and what you might do about it.

Ideally, you'd ask lots of other mothers in the class, who have "seen" what's going on and have an "angle" on it - not just your dd's bf's mum, but you can't, because that might be "gossipping" and you're a nice person and don't want to make anyone feel bad. Hence mumsnet.

Drawback with mn is that we only have your "angle", which is a bit limiting.

Never mind; we'll do our best.

Here is just one possible angle/interpretation - and you can just use it to bounce around - it's not necessarily "right" or "wrong":

Firstly - I would step right back. I would cancel the playdate and actually, I would give some minimal and vague excuse: "dd is tired after school at the moment, let's leave it for now" and I would just take a raincheck with regards to letting them get together at some future date. That buys you time to think about what you're going to do, without having to do anything now, in haste.

Why I would do that has something to do with the following:

Schools are funny places. Kids go there to learn curriculum stuff but actually, the biggest thing they learn is socialisation. For example, they learn that behaviour A will lose you friends and make life hard, while if you adopt behaviour B, life will become radically easier. Hopefully they will learn that people will respond positively and favourably to behaviour you if you move from behaviour A to behaviour B. Kids also learn to be forgiving and tolerant, hopefully.

As adults/parents/carers, we should talk, listen, interpret, offer advice. We should keep a close eye and make sure behaviour doesn't cross lines (eg. bullying, isolating) and intervene (firmly) if it does.

And no - I find it impossible to follow my own advice. I am often quite an overly-interventionist parent!

So, one possible interpretation: Jay arrives. Your dd offers to be her playground buddy. Jay is interesting, intelligent, articulate. Your dd is drawn to her. Jay wants your dd as her one, intense friend. Such intensity is attractive. No doubt it makes your dd feel special, wanted. Jay insists on your dd being her exclusive friend, and adopts quite heavy behaviour if your dd doesn't comply (even these, to my mind, rather un-normal e-mails).

Amazingly, your dd says No.

She has somehow worked out in her head that Jay, for all her good and attractive points, has a rather worrying type of behaviour, that she is uncomfortable with. Despite various adult interventions, Jay is persisting in that type of behaviour. It's not changing. Your dd has decided that, even with all Jay's good points, behaviour A is just too much and she has a choice; accept behaviour A or lose Jay's friendship.

She's chosen to lose Jay's friendship.

Actually, that is quite mature reasoning.

Just think of all those adult women who are still puzzling that one out.

I think at this point, having spoken to the teacher, I would have discussed with my dd what was going on and kept an eye on it to see that things weren't descending into bullying/exclusion. I'd wait to see if Jay cooled down the way she approaches relationships.

I'm not at all sure I would have re-negotiated the re-opening of the friendship, on unchanged terms.

Oddly enough, as parents, we tend to bring an overly-adult perspective in our children's relationships, over-coloured by our own memories of school and our own anxieties about what we want/need our children to be/act out for us.

I think we have to trust our children to be quite good at negotiating this sort of stuff - though obviously with our help. You're obviously a very decent person and motivated by a great deal of generosity. Your dd will surely pick up on that and carry it into her dealings with others. I think you have to trust her a little.

Leave it for a bit - I'd be amazed if Jay doesn't move on and find someone more suitable for a close friendship. Someone who actually really needs a close, one on one friendship. There's certain to be someone in the class who perhaps needs that kind of friendship and will thrive in Jay's company. In a weird way, keeping Jay and your dd together is stopping Jay either finding another friend or learning different "friendship" tactics.

Obviously, if it descends into Jay being isolated or ostracised, I'd go and have another chat with the teacher/review tactics. But, given time, the new-bf scenario is the most likely.

Btw - I was genuinely a bit surprised by the e-mails. I have no idea if that is normal angsty stuff in eight year olds. Also, you are clearly reading your dd's e-mails but is Jay's mum equally interested?

So there we go - just one possible interpretation. I've no idea if it's the right one. I'm only putting one possible slant on the information given. I'm sure there are many others.

Good luck.

cherryblossoms · 19/02/2009 14:08

Blimey!

That's an essay!

Sorry everyone.

strestmum · 19/02/2009 15:04

Thanks all...Cherryblossom in particular. I was using Mumsnet to either verify or villify my approach. You tend to get the black and white responses on here sometimes, but they at least give you a view on things.

It's jay's mum who initiated the playdate, unsurprisingly. At the time dd and Jay were playing nicely in the playground, which made me quite hopeful that it had all stopped. Only problem is, Jay seems to turn on the 'nasty' when things are going well. Seems odd to me, but as you say Cherryb...I'm an adult looking at a child's world and I'm probably a bit out of my depth...God, I wish I could speak 8-ese. The emails were on our schools' Studywiz programme and I think it was just something that Jay had got into the habit of saying...I think she thinks it's cool to do the 'drop dead; I wish you were dead; I'll kill you if you don't play with me' all that kind of stuff. My dd is disturbed by it as she's a bit protected. If I admit that she's a PFB (actually an only child to boot) that might put this into perspective and might make me look a bit rubbish/over protective...but hey ho!

Since posting, I've just picked up dd from a playdate and asked her if she wants me to arrange a playdate with Jay for next week or not as I'm about to ring her mum. I told her I'm happy whichever she decides and will just let Kay's mum know.

DD said she wants to give Jay another chance (bought a lump to my throat actually, but then I am PMT-ish). I'll mention to the mum that Jay seems to be struggling again and has acted out towards my girl. Hopefully between teachers and parents we can sort this and give the girl the right messages.

Thanks for your help everyone.....

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