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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To want employer to help with some of my childcare costs??

58 replies

cheekymonk · 17/02/2009 18:59

Hi There
I work for Civil Service and have a 4 year old ds. I work 4 days per week and do 26 hours. DS is at nursery whilst I work.
DH is away on 7 month deployment with navy, no family to help out.
We don't get working tax credits as income too high (supposedly!!)
We both get the vouchers which have saved us some money.
I got promotion in 2007 and ever since I have noticed the odd having to pay extra so I can attend courses on non working days, occasionally stay late and help out with recruitment etc. I knew promotion would mean working harder/giving more which I don't begrudge. I do get paid more obviously so thats fine and to be expected.
I have just paid out and taken it on the chin so far but got another £10 charge on monday as late (after 6 so pay out of hours charge) and the boss I was helping (not usual boss) refused to let me go dead on time despite me saying I needed to. I did think I would make it but due to traffic didn't. I am with same boss tomorrow so will go on dot whether he likes it or not. I had already paid another £18 for the 2 extra hours on that day I had to take so I could help out.
I have worked it all out and have paid £280 over a year due to things like this. Its not a fortune but money we could do with and at the end of the day, I don't go to work to be out of pocket.
I can put a business case to my boss to ask for help with childcare costs. AIBU to do this???
Some could say I took the promotion, I had a child, I married a forces man etc so therefore it is my fault and I should live with it and not expect someone else to pay for my decisions (I'll say it before someone else does!) BUT why should I be discriminated against for being part-time, a mother and having some ambition?

OP posts:

Bumperslucious · 17/02/2009 20:03

'I can put a business case to my boss to ask for help with childcare costs. AIBU to do this???'

Why not just do it then? We have the same thing. I work certain days but if I have to do a course or go away on a non working day I can claim childcare costs. (As it is, I can't really as DH and I share care so we have no childcare provider and DH would have to take a day off which I'm sure they wouldn't pay for, so I actually lose out in that respect).

spicemonster · 17/02/2009 20:09

twofalls - I agree that it's pants (it was me that said that) but in my experience it's true. You just don't make director where I work unless you work 60+ hours a week. I think if you're already there, they're not going to downgrade you but that's the way it is. And at the risk of being inflammatory, if I were doing a 60 hour week and one of my colleagues on the same pay was doing 35, I'd be pretty pissed off.

llareggub · 17/02/2009 20:16

It isn't a part-time v full-time issue. You'd still experience the same issues with childcare if you were full-time. Staying over and above your hours isn't exclusive to part-times, nor is being late for your childcare.

All you need is more flexible childcare, which is up to you to sort. Yes, work should make sure that you can carry out your work in the time available, but emergencies can and do happen and to be honest it is in your interest as a part-timer to be seen to be pulling your weight.

What will you do when DS starts school? Is there an after-school club that you can use? If not then maybe looking for a childminder near the school might be the sensible solution.

myfunnynametaken · 17/02/2009 20:26

what about getting an au-pair

pavlovthecat · 17/02/2009 20:27

I have had problems with needing to attend training on days I am scheduled to have off. It has meant that on occasion the additional days have cost money I cannot afford.

For the most part I find a way to do it, and on one occasion I just could not afford it, as I had been required to do 4 out of 6 fridays.

I spoke to my manager and she said that my employers would pay for the childcare. Basically, if I am prepared to meet half way, my employers also will work with me.

If you are losing out on opportunities for training due to part time status, that is discrimination, and my boss understands this and will ensure I am able to access the training available. If that means employer paying for child care on days I do not usually work, that is what they will do.

paolosgirl · 17/02/2009 20:30

Yes, but she isn't dealing with the odd emergency - this is a regular occurence. It's not up to employees to change perfectly good childcare to suit employers who decide to change the goalposts.

MichaelaS · 17/02/2009 20:35

I work in a relatively high pressure long hours environment, and I have recently gone 4 days a week. We've just gone through year end, and people have asked me several times if i can "keep an eye on my blackberry" or join a call on my day off.

My stock response is "actually i'd prefer to do it on Saturday, are you available then?". that tends to put it into perspective for them as if it's that important to them they will work on their day off too. if it's not there is no way i'll work on my day off if they are not prepared to put in the same effort!

I'd advise you to have a talk with the manager you worked with today, explain that because he asked you to stay late you incurred fees of £10, and that if it happens again you will expect him to reimburse you from his budget. I'd have a similar conversation with any new manager you work with - you don't have to lay it on thick but you can just say something like "my childcare arrangements mean that I need to leave on time otherwise I will incur fees. I'm just letting you know because if you need me to stay late then I will need you to reimburse those fees".

Original poster

cheekymonk · 17/02/2009 20:39

There are some good points being made. I intend to change hours again when ds starts school but stay within school hours and work 5 days. Work is about 7 miles from the school but school is very close to our home.This coupled with only paying childcare in holidays/half terms should make life easier but does not totally alleviate issue of what happens if I work over hours. There is no after school club and I remember only too well the feeling of being the last to be picked up!
The nursery is fairly flexible and I always praise them for being so good but I don't want to take the piss!
I do feel I pull my weight at work but it is the classic case of the more you give the more is expected.
I have started to write business case and shall put it in but I wanted a valid well thought argument and I knew I would hear some opposing views on here... I just worry thats all.
Thanks everyone.

OP posts:

foxinsocks · 17/02/2009 20:39

I agree with Llareggub. I think you need to look at more flexible childcare.

One thing about becoming more senior is that sometimes you can't leave right on the dot of 5pm (say) because you might be on an important phone call or as you say, might need to stay a tiny bit later.

I think it would cause you the least stress if you looked for something more flexible!

If your employer reimburses any childcare costs, it's fully taxable (and NI able).

foxinsocks · 17/02/2009 20:46

the other thing is to build in an hour's grace. If traffic can be an issue, just build in an extra hour anyway. Then at least you won't be panicking too much if you get held up a little bit at the office.

I also think you have to put your foot down sometimes. When I have to leave at a certain time, I make it very clear and mention it several times during the day .

fishie · 17/02/2009 20:59

i don't think working tax credits income threshold is anything like £56k (not that we earn that much), i found £34k is where it stops making any serious contribution and they overpaid so now we get about £30 a month.

that is fuck all for two full time working parents with full time childcare.

i also got promoted and went from 0.6 days to 0.9. i am no better off financially. am getting childcare voucher people in but that still isn't much. we could pay another mortgage with our childcare costs.

pavlovthecat · 17/02/2009 21:01

foxinsocks - does that include if the employer pays the childcare directly? That is is liable for tax/ni? My childcare provider invoices my employers directly for any agreed payments from my employer.

paolosgirl · 17/02/2009 21:10

The problem with building in childcare time at the end of the day is that nurserys and afterschool clubs tend to finish at 6, which means that you are then 'forced' (too strong a word bykwim)to look at au pairs, nannies and childminders. If nursery is what suits you and your DC then I don't think you should have to change your existing arrangements or incur additional expense on a regular basis to suit an employer - unless YOU want to.

foxinsocks · 17/02/2009 21:13

is it a workplace nursery pavlov? because there are different rules for that. (or if it falls under that £55 a week exemption for tax/ni - so if it is part of the voucher scheme as it's generally known)

OrmIrian · 17/02/2009 21:17

Sorry but they won't help. I had a big battle about this a few years back when I was expected to attend a course with 3 young children and my extra costs were about 200 that I couldn't afford.

You takethe job on the understanding that it's going to cost X amt. No-one is obliged to help.

OrmIrian · 17/02/2009 21:18

But I do agree with those posters who said that must put your foot down and go when neccessary. If they value you they will have to make allowances.

rookiemater · 17/02/2009 21:22

Such a difficult one, it is the perennial problem when you have to rush out the door to pick up your DC.

I would disagree with the poster that said leaving on time means you have blighted your career prospects for good though. Certainly an amount of flexibility does need to be demonstrated but this can't always be at your personal expense.

Agree with posters that you can't claim what you have already paid, but I see nothing wrong in telling your interim boss if asked to stay on late again that you had to pay £X for additional childcare costs and you cannot afford to do this on a regular basis, but would be happy to meet earlier in the day or rejig things whilst you are there to make things work for both of you.

pavlovthecat · 17/02/2009 21:26

{foxinsocks - no, private nursery, sorry for hijack!)

foxinsocks · 17/02/2009 21:32

think that should go on your P11D pavlov.

Normally reimbursed costs are run through the payroll as if they were extra earnings (as really this is what they are...you are paying someone extra money) so this ends up costing the employer a fair bit (as they are expected to pay over the PAYE and NI). Which is why employer's often won't do it this way.

Directly paid costs (i.e. directly paid by an employer to a childcare provider on the employee's behalf) are normally treated more as a 'traditional' benefit and the amount reported via the P11D.

pavlovthecat · 17/02/2009 21:35

what is a p11d? Wonder why my boss would not tell me this . I shall look into it...thanks!

foxinsocks · 17/02/2009 21:54

thing is, it can be quite complicated. I don't know what sort of arrangement you have with your employers. e.g. have you come to the arrangement as part of a salary sacrifice? or are they paying it in addition to your salary (i.e. you earn £25k a year and then on top of that, your employer happens to pay your childcare costs)?

All of this will effect the way it is treated so best to ask the questions now and understand fully how they are operating it because it may be there is something that affects its treatment for tax (probably is).

What I have outlined is simplistic and doesn't take into account any specific arrangements they may have agreed with you.

it's never as simple as it seems

don't worry about it. P11D is a form used to report employee benefits (things like private medical insurance, company cars etc.)

pavlovthecat · 17/02/2009 21:57

fox - i just went to my boss one day and said I cant do xyz training as I cant do childcare again this month, she said 'hang on a second' went to her boss, came back and said 'we will pay, we can it from time to time' I asked how it should be done, she said 'get nursery to invoice us'. Mentioned it to the resource manager woman who deals with invoices, and she said 'yeah just give me the invoice, I will pay it'.

foxinsocks · 17/02/2009 21:58

i.e. do you forgo some of your salary so that they pay your childcare costs? Because if it is something like that, then they are really just paying it on your behalf out of your salary and then it should have no impact on your tax (if it's coming out of your after tax salary anyway and they are just paying it over instead of you paying it over). But normally you would sign something to agree to this.

anyway, best to check

pavlovthecat · 17/02/2009 22:02

fox - no. I do the busybees voucher thing for my normal childcare. I had never really considered the whole tax thing. I will stop hijacking now and go check it tomorrow...thank you!

foxinsocks · 17/02/2009 22:02

sorry, hadn't seen your last post.

Ask them if it will go on your P11D at the end of the year Pavlov and what that will mean for you....they should be able to tell you this (I imagine they are treating it this way but best to check with them).

Tbh, the way you describe it, I would expect it to (appear on your P11D) as it is a benefit for you (that they are paying it).

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