to expect something back from the state now our income has dropped by more than half...?

[vtiredmummy]

Had rotten dat today, and ended up shouting/crying on phone to poor call centre lady from the child tax credit office.

Our situation - until last week dh and I were good earners, (and hard workers) with paid childcare. Now dh has been made redundant and effectively overnight our income has reduced by well over half.

So (stupidly) I called up the tax credit people (cos my wage alone entitles us to both child and working tax credits) to let them know...like the advert 'let us know if your circumstances change...etc etc' to be told that we are entitled to nothing because of our income over the past ten months.

Then we can re-claim in April where they will base it on 08-09 income and they might take into account redundancy, but the amount we get (if anything) is still based upon 08-09.

They won't take the cost of childcare into account because dh is at home, so our ds now loses all routine and continuity as we will have to take him out of his nursery due to the cost.

Does anyone else think this is totally, totally ridiculous??? We will get all the credits we need in April 2010 in effect. If dh hasn't got a job by then we'd have lost our house long before.

We can't be the only ones in this situation and I find it infuriating that HMRC don't have a system for people in this situation.

And if dh left me I'd be better off as a single mum right now...which just makes me even more mad. What the heck does the government think they are doing???!!!

AIBU, or should I just be thankful for what I have gor. I don't feel much like this right now btw...

Rant over

As much as sympathise about your DH loosing his job, i have to say that part of your post makes me

Why do you expect the goverment to pay the nursery when one of you is not working? If you have said you need this so that your DH is going to interviews it would be ok.
But you dont want to take your son out of nursery because he is used to it???? And you want the luxury to be funded?

Trust me many children have to adapt to much worse in this climate (thousands lost their home and many are strugling with food and heating)

And the hint about single mothers was not nice. At least they put their DC in nursery because they have to, there is noone at home to look after them.

And why is your son better off at nursery than been looked after by his father?

Expats post is excellent and very well put.

YABU too expect the state to pay for a nursery place that you actually dont need.

If your DH was a "good earner" then surely you have savings for a rainy day or insurance to cover redundancy.

If your income alone is under £17k you'll qualify for some help from tax credits in the new financial year if you ask them to base on current details. No help with childcare though. Tax credits are based on the previous years earnings as it stops a lot of overpayments as the figures are already confirmed, when using current year figures overpayments are frequent if circustances change etc.

You are lucky that you still have one wage coming in, your DH can look for a new job and there are jobs out there if you are prepared to do any job.

Did anyone listen to the interview of Gordon Brown this evening?

It was a call in program and this woman called up and pointed out:

1. She had been working any paying NI/tax for the past 20 years.

2. She lost her job through no fault of her own

3. So, why could she not collect JSA as her husband was working and was based on household income...

I don't think she has a point at all. things like this are means tested. if her husband earns enough to put them over the threshold (and there has to be a cut-off point somewhere) then that's just too bad.
THis is exactly the point I was making.
People need to start living within their means, instead of using up spare money on holidays and new clothes and eating out they should be putting some aside just in case things like this happen.

I don't know why anyone thinks that things like JSA etc etc shouldn't be done on household income. that income is THEIRS, not just his and is used to suport the entire household, not jsut him... so why on earth should they ignore that and pay her to find a job???

If it was a matter of policy, then why didn't the PM know?

It's inconsistent though; an individual being taxed solely, yet assessed for benefits dually.

Hi all. thanks so much for the advice. I wish the tax credits people had told me all of this, but thank goodness mumsnetters are here to let me know how all this stuff works!

I have posted on the Harriet Harman's thread now. What I feel most stroongly about is not 'poor, hard done by me' and I apologise to those posters who felt that was what I was saying as it was not my intention.

What really hacks me off is that this isn't an isolated situation. As has been mentioned by many other posters, loads of people are in the same situation. Why can't the govt react to this issue which is only going to get bigger in the near future. Why isn't there a way for them to assess current income. This is what I shall be writing to my local MP about anyway. She'd better be prepared for my rant mk 2!

And just to clear up the childcare thing for those posters who made some harsh comments but didn't read the whole thread...I hope that dh will soon get a job, and at this point ds will be back in childcare (I have to work ft)so ds gets the luxury of being with dh (which I'm sure both will love) but I am just worried about the effect on ds if/when this changes and he doesn't see dh mon-fri after spending so much time with him.

I do not expect the state to fund my lifestyle. We've already made radical changes to the way we live, including getting rid of dh's car as soon as we found out, and cutting down on many other liferstyle choices that we had made in the past.

I do not expect the state to pay for my childcare either, I just wanted the tax credits people to take this cost into account when assessing what I am entitled to, as we'd been paying it for the past 10 months, but what they told me that beccause dh is unemployed they can't take it into account.

Thakns again for everyone's help and advice. I'm like a dog with a bone when I feel strongly about something so rest assured I won't let this lie.

And finally I wish all the luck in the world for everyone else and their dh's, dp's etc who are dealing with redundancy. xxx

i am thinking not to collect DC from nursery in the evening. What if they get used to me all evening then get upset when i drop them in the morning?

Makes sense

Lets leave them there then. And ask for funds...

The TC assesment structure reminds me of the old uni grants system. My mum lost her job during the end of my first year at uni (pre loan days) and when I went into my second year I got a tiny grant 'cos they assessed on her previous years earnings.

I wasn't the only person in that situation, that structure was flawed so why feckin use it for the tax credits - which is far more important than beer money for workshy students

I hope the OP's DH finds a new job ASAP. It is utterly galling that people who pay into the system get feck all out of it.

SGM

Sorry but that is utter rubbish in a lot of cases!

Often outgoings match salaries - we have a good income but a huge mortgage and do not have any money left to save. BTW, we don't buy new tv/cars etc. We are unlikely to be able to afford a holiday this year.

but it's your choice to have a huge mortgage.

RE the tax credit thing. Next years award (09-10)can be based on your new financial situation, as long as you phone them up to renew it, rather than fill the forms out nd send them.

RE the mortgage thing. You can change your mortgage to interest only, as long as your bank agrees. Most banks are allowing this giving the current financial situation, but not as a long term fixture. And check your mortgage offer conditions or phone your lender to see if your product has a payment holiday feature. Most of the products that the bank I worked for last year (before being made redundant) did, you had to make 9 consecutive months payments, and could take up to 3 months off, although interest was acrued.

Hope OP's DH finds a job shortly as times are hard. Do think your DS doesnt need to be in nursery though.

wasaconvent

of course there's plenty of people that can't afford to save...but there's even more that can, don't you think they should?????

this is

That is true but it does not change the fact that many of us have no money left to save!

right, so if you choose to have a big mortgage or whatever then ultimately you will pay the price if something like this happens.
you can't expect the government to bail you out because you made bad choices.

as I said earlier in the thread, we chose to have a smaller mortgage and a smaller house in a less desirable area so that we could afford payment protection on our mortgage and life insurance. and we are also able to put a small amount into savings as well.

this means that should dp lose his job we are secure in the knowledge that we won't lose our home.

we are nearly all capable of doing this. but so many people don't... and then end up like the OP, at risk of losing their house

"right, so if you choose to have a big mortgage or whatever then ultimately you will pay the price if something like this happens."

Agree. I disagree that it is always a bad choice to have a big mortgage, we are covered regrding insurance, sickness etc.
My DH also works in a fairly stable industry.

We chose a bigger house in a better area, with better schools etc - it is a choice.

Im wholly confused by this tbh. We were in receipt of full tax credits up until this year and it would seem that we may be having to pay some back or have some knocked off next years payments. But we wont find out until april - strange but true. Anyway - they base our income on the 2007-08 accounts that we recently submitted, DP is self employed. Last year and this year, they assessed us via phone call (as i reported a change) and they asked what 2008-09 would be, I said i didn't know - they said, well give us a ball park figure - So you want me to guess then? Yep, pretty much - so thats what we have done, guessed based on the previous years income. I was a bit and said to them, well i am hoping this year will be better for us so what if when i do the accounts its different, and they said so long as you get it to us by the end of the tax year - you wont get into trouble. Of course you have to pay back over payment.

OP, it could well be that you are not entitled because your ANNUAL INCOME may have exceeded the limit anyway, its not that high anyway. So it could well be that when you work it out. It works both ways - DP was probably earning over a grand a week on one job he did but over the year his income was only 14k. So we were still entitled to full benefits. Of course that really doesn't help you does it.

Like other posters have said - call your mortgage company, they may well have facilities to help you. Get in touch to anyone you owe money too and explain the situation - it is far better than trying to keep up with payments and falling behind (believe me, i know!). I would maybe contact the CAB and see if they can help, it just helps sometimes to have them write letters to creditors etc.

Im really sorry your DH has been made redundant. I guess its pants about the nursery but look at it as a positive, DH gets to spend some valuable time with his son - he will look back on that as something special. How old is your son? If he is over three he is entitled to five sessions a week for free. That would give your DH time for jobhunting. That might be the thing to do actually, if you could afford just one day a week or a couple of mornings to give your DH time to apply for jobs etc.

Best of luck with it all.

"Did anyone listen to the interview of Gordon Brown this evening?

It was a call in program and this woman called up and pointed out:

1. She had been working any paying NI/tax for the past 20 years.

2. She lost her job through no fault of her own

3. So, why could she not collect JSA as her husband was working and was based on household income..."

Many moons ago I worked in a jobcentre. For the above scenerio she would be entitled to the contribution based JSA had she paid enough NI in the relevant tax years (providing she wasn't self-employed as it is a different NI paid). I can't remember how much redunancy payments impact on it, certainly pay in lieu is deducted like for like. I think from memory you can only claim contribution based JSA for 6 months after that its the means-tesed JSA.

My rusty memory also tells me that even if you're not entitled to pounds in the bank via JSA, they will cover your NI contributions for state pension purposes. It can be useful should you apply for jobs that require security checks as it can be proved where you were so to speak (someone got turned down for a security job due to a gap in his employment record and he would have got it had he signed on straight away which is why it sticks in my mind!)

We've had three periods when dh has lost a job, and each time we have changed our childcare arrangements and he has been a full time SAHD for a while. I think that it has brought the children a lot of benefits, and dh has certainly enjoyed himself (currently he is learning how to make bread). It does mean that we have to plan with the notion that we will not always have two incomes, but I'm not sure that is such a bad thing. The up side is that when we have had two incomes we have felt very rich!

OP I hope that your dh enjoys his time with your little one, and finds a job soon.