to find the Guardian article "The Dummy Mummy Decade" offensive?

[PenguinProject]

See here. Then again, perhaps I should be polishing my bugaboo rather than reading the Guardian...

mrsmattie anyone can be dull for sure in any life situation.

But what these articles are highlighting is the peculiar solisism of women about their children. I just think they have the right to feel as they do. Why can't we just give them that.

Of course we are naturally obsessed with bringing up our children! It's the best thing that's ever happened to me, I feel hysterically fortunate to have 2 dc. But god knows if I didn't then life would be socially challenging, i.e how can you avoid your friends until the children are teenagers and the parents start to hate them and talk about summat else?

sorry solipsistic attitude

No, our society is not family friendly enough in general - but nor people-friendly enough. The profit principle is way out of control and it forces anyone who cares about anything else into horrible convoluted defensive positions far too often.
It causes stress and tension to have to justify yourself to your boss for leaving early to take care of some unexpected child care issue; or for taking a few minutes to do something with a small child with snarling commuters hissing around you, etc etc (god forbid they should be at their desk 5 minutes later!). But people with children are not the only ones who deserve support in articulating priorities other than jamming themselves behind desks 10 hours a day. Even politeness is more important than this world gives it credit for.

I am pg with my first child relatively late in life and I have spent my whole working life having to manifest a pretend obedience to priorities that are simply pathetic - compared to anything, not just family. I do a good job and am skilled and respected in what I do, but that is not enough - you have to appear to belong to the corporation.
I am not having an easy pregnancy physically and am lucky to be having a lot of support and flexibility from my bosses to work around my problems. I am staggered, touched, overwhelmed at the degree of humanity I am being shown and to tell the truth, while I am certainly not complaining, this is no worse a time for me than many others - yet there is so much more sympathy for me. I know I am getting all this support simply because I am pregnant and I have never had this support for mental health issues, or flexibility for other projects like voluntary work. Is this really so much more important than absolutely anything else?

It's one of my favourites anniemac.

I just remember in my 30s when it took me years to get pregnant I used to think "where wlll we live, where will we go on holiday to avoid the joy of families and how painful that will be to us, and the dreariness of the conversations of the joyful?" There is so much pain out there that doesn't get a voice and irritation and boredom etc. Childless women do not get permission to express the whole range of their feelings. That is my genuine opinion and this thread kind of proves it!

I am guilty of being motherdull for sure but it helps me to be reminded of it. I forgive myself for being dull at times, there is a good reason for it. But equally we should all remember that to bore another person is unkind! Every single person alive who can speak should welcome the opportunity to be reminded of that!

I have friends that don't have children of their own, and do not intend to have any. There are still children in their lives that they spend time with (nephews and nieces usually) and they talk about them proudly and clearly love them.

I do think it is odd that there are adults who live in a world where they have no contact with children and do not want to discuss anything to do with them. Children are part of society.

We clearly do@ anniemac.

Well, in my opinion, the food chain looks a bit like this:

All men, regardless of whether they have kids or not
Women without kids
Women with kids

Women with kids are at the very bottom of the ladder in virtually all areas of society, in terms of opportunity and the way they are viewed. I cannot see how anybody can dispute that fact?

Women without children would be better off showing some solidarity with the rest of us (ie, the vast majority of us), instead of standing in the corner with the nasty, boar-ish men sniping about how dull women with kids are.

I thought it as telling that she was interested in her friend talking about her children (the ones that the writer liked) but not interested in children she didn't know or like. Seems perfectly normal to me along with the usual nearing 40 crisis of last chance to have children before too old debate.

I talk about my child to other friends who have children the same age and to others who ask me direct. Other than that I don't mention the fact that I have a child as it isn't always relevant or intersting. The same way that when I had cats I'd talk about them to friends with cats but not with those who didn't.

Typical Guardian page filling imo.

Interesting the full circle that this thread has done.

My principle objection is that it is a lazy, poorly written article...I second whoever rightly picked on the sloppy "hey, my friend did this, my mate said that" school of journalism. It's so bloody teenage. I can more or less "get over" any point of view in a column as long as it's delivered with bit of wit and panache - both were sorely lacking here - which is why I felt the writer was fair game. I also think it sounds desperately made up and exaggerated, without demonstrating the necessary literary dexterity to pull it off.

Apart from my work colleagues, all my mid-thirties mates are childless, so I'm on an island where I'd be lucky if folk even considered cracking a window open whilst smoking in their front room having invited me over when I was pregnant....so the idea that I could bore on at all about my kids to my circle of friends is hilarious. They ask of course, but I know they don't want to hear any more than "fine" and perhaps my best, shortest, most amusing anecdote from that week (definitely nothing about how great they are) before we move on to more "universal" territory.

I think some more recent posters are unfair -I think the thread has been witty and sporting - not spiteful. And you can't deny people the honest emotional reaction they had to that article (the one which presumably it was written to elicit??)

I was having a bit of fun, and now it's gone all earnest. Great cocktail party this thread has turned out to be....

I can't argue with that, anniemac, but I'm not so sure others would agree. My life has become better since I had children, yes. My professional life has become much more difficult, and I suspect I am not alone.

Personally, I only ever benefited form women who had children when I was a childless woman in the workplace. I was able to put in the crazy hours that the job demanded, which made me look great against women with other commitments. I also acted up to cover other women on maternity leave, giving me valuable management experience I might not have had the opportunity to get otherwise.

I don't really get the argument put forward in the Guardian piece that women with children, as well as being generally dull and obsessed with their kids, also put upon childless women in the workplace. And I still can't get my head around the fact that the article is almost wholly attacks women with children. My DH bores on about the kids far more than I do, but do you know what? in his circle (very trendy, music industry), men with kids are proud of their families and use family related banter as they would golf or football related banter - to affirm professional friendships and strengthen contacts. they don't feel guilty and have to keep schtum in case they offend someone or come across as a crashing bore.

Oh, the double standards.

Anyway, must go and feed DD. Oops, sorry, I mean, invent the wheel!

Interestingly at my work, the first 15 minutes of a meeting can often be be taken up with idle chit chat about kids and families...(never instigated by me - always instigated by my HOD's - male and female). It also doesn't matter whether the person in for the meeting is male or female. I also work in media related industry...it's seems like it's used as some great leveller when first meeting someone...and if I'm honest, I did find it all be bit tedious and alientating before I had kids...

Actually - THAT would have been a far more interesting and accurate subject for an article. It's like the new "where do you ski" type of smug meeting opener...

ha-bloody-ha, so somebody didn't feign interest in your dull dull dull stories about the yemen so you thought you would vent your mid life crisis spleen upon the heads of all mothers. well done you narcasistic freak

My god. Do people actually get paid for writing such self satifisfied, vacuous rubbish?

Fuck bonus culture, lets get Browny to lay into petit-bourgeois journos.

I object on environmental grounds, actually. A tree died so she could feel tell the world, (who wasn't asking) her rationale for her childlessness. Like anyone gives a fuck.

she so jealous

thats why she so bitter

I can some up the article in 8 words:

"Sometimes people bore me about stuff they like."

The End.

Some of the posters on this thread are overgenerously giving this shallow article far more depth than it actually contains. It is not the heart-felt plea of a childless woman who is desperately yearning for mothers to stop flinging their fertility in her face. She's just a journo with a deadline. End of story. If I were her editor I'd have told her it was a pile of crap and that she should go back to the drawing board.

I think there are some great, witty and intelligent ripostes to the article on this thread, and I suggest we collaborate to come up with a response that's actually had brainpower injected into it, to send to the Guardian and see if they print it. What say you?

YES YES YES MRS HENRY - whoop whoop,

This made me so angry yesterday I even looked up how to complain myself. Email the thread link to the editor.

Now that is solidarity - but lets make sure it is articulated than the article and balance. I can remeber reading article about a women not wnating children but she didnt pour venom on people who did.

Obviously spelling and grammar need to be better than mine, sure my keys are sticking!

Great, let's do it! Anyone else in, or is it just me and ol' bigeyes in the corner?

Mrsmerry - I have to pick up DS in 30mins, but will be back throughout evening. But here are some points to start with - I wont be offended if people disagree or want to word them differently I'm doing this very quickly and Hvant read all of todays posts (I do work a bit!)

There are childless people who are boring.

Unaceptable sweeping generalisations about all mothers are boring - are fathers included?

Inapprpriate reference to threads on mumsnet as it is the very purpose of the site to unit PARENTS and what about all the other non parent related content

Nobody like a boaster re trips to Yemen - re phrase but this comment seems to have been picked up by many posters on here.

That she screens her friend through use of questions after birth.

Does this uphold the values of the guardian and are they anti breeding? This type of article seems to seek to alienate parents, others in particular. That fact that she doesnt mention dads? is sexist too.

Thats all for now - I shall have t o read it again