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Original poster

to report somebody for not paying tax?

155 replies

PramInspector · 07/02/2009 19:07

I'm really not sure about this one and would really appreciate some views as it is a bit of a moral dilemma which I just don't have the answer to.

I know someone (a guy) who runs his own business and who has not been declaring the large majority of his earnings (and thus not paying tax on them) for many years.

Now on the one hand, I think it is not my business to judge. On the other hand, I think this is clearly a crime which we are all paying for.

Why on earth should he get away with it? And why on earth should it be seen as any different to nicking somebody's handbag (which most people wouldn't hesitate to report and probably involves a lot less money)?

The other thing that makes this decision harder is that this guy has recently left his partner & 3 children, and I am not sure what impact it could have on them if this tax fraud was reported.

So what would you guys do?

OP posts:
tumtumtetum · 07/02/2009 20:20

Tax revenue 2007-2008 £451 053 000 000.

646 MPs in the house of commons.

That means £698,224,458 for each MP.

Nice work if you can get it

Desi you should def become a politican if you think that is what they are taking home

diedandgonetodevon · 07/02/2009 20:21

I would report him (and her, if his ex was involved) if he is evading tax - tbh the fact he is boasting about it makes it even worse because he obviously does not feel bad about it!

tumtumtetum · 07/02/2009 20:21

Desi would you care to respond to my point about NHS, old people's care etc with your "pay for what you use" model?

broody4baby · 07/02/2009 20:23

Keep well out! It will come back to bite you on the bum.......

Desiderata · 07/02/2009 20:23

tumtum, how do you come to the conclusion that that's what I think MPs are taking home?
Rather a bizarre assumption from my posts.

The PM earns less than your average CEO.

The expenses, of course, are another matter.

tumtumtetum · 07/02/2009 20:26

Desi you said

"Hmm, the trouble with tax is that most of it just goes to line the politician's pocket."

I simply did a quick calculation.

I'm still interested to know what is going to happen to all the people who can't afford to pay for services as they use them...

Desiderata · 07/02/2009 20:27

tumtum, it's quite simple. The government still get all their money, but the money is generated in a different way.

If a rich person wants to buy a ridiculously expensive watch, he has to pay exhorbitant tax on it. He or she will be quite prepared to do so, because he or she is not paying income tax.

Purchase tax has been discussed for a couple of hundred years. I personally think it's a more sophisticated way of screwing people out of money.

Income tax is a blunt sword. The rich and the poor will always find ways around fiddling it.

Purchase tax pretty much solves the problem .. and the government still get their money.

FiveGoMadInDorset · 07/02/2009 20:27

Report him.

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 07/02/2009 20:28

No tax system is ever going to be without evaders and frauds. You make the rule, you make the trick. Purchase tax would be as subject to fraud as any other tax system.

flaminhell · 07/02/2009 20:30

Oh, i would say, not your business, people can get very nasty when it comes to money, so keep well out of it, plus there is the word karma, unless you are sure that your house is in order all round, I would leave well alone.

tumtumtetum · 07/02/2009 20:32

Won't people just buy stuff in bulk from abroad?

Won't the powers that be (the rich and powerful) make sure that what they want is exempt in some way, or attracts a lower level (thinking about how fine wines and vintage cars have different rules attached at the moment).

Doesn't this mean that trade with other countries will cease as our goods will be so expensive no-one will want to buy them?

Would this mean that there would be no capital gains/inheritance taxes or taxes on savings etc - enabling the rich to get vastly richer?

is it really fair for a 4 person family on £30K a year to pay the same as a 4 person family on £3 million a year?

When this is implemented won't it mean that to raise the same revenue, things will have to be so expensive that the family on £30K will be spending the majority of their income on tax simply to keep food on the table?

tumtumtetum · 07/02/2009 20:33

Sorry that was in response to desi.

pooka · 07/02/2009 20:42

So a loaf of bread would cost the same, as it does now, for a rich person and a poor person.

And that would be the sole way of raising money to fund services?

Crazy.

tumtumtetum · 07/02/2009 20:46

Yes pooka.

But in order to raise enough money the loaf of bread would probably have to cost at least a fiver.

Maybe I have misunderstood what Desi is suggesting

remindmeofthebabe · 07/02/2009 20:46

Gotta agree with flamin hell - if he ever found out or even suspected that it was you who grassed then you might get some nasty comeback.

Yes, you might still be hacked off at how unfair it is but at least your car windscreen will still be intact!

edam · 07/02/2009 20:51

I'd report him. He had the money to pay and chose not to.

Swedes · 07/02/2009 21:02

No I wouldn't. It's up to the system to sort the dodgers out and I am not employed by the system. In fact I try to keep my tax bill down each year. Is it not just an extreme version of that?

Desiderata · 07/02/2009 21:03

I'm not suggesting the idea is ideal, but it's a different take on the raising of tax.

The Americans have been into the idea for years. George Washington was an exponent, and he was from England.

Yes, all taxation systems are subject to abuse.

But the thread started because someone wanted to squeal on a tax evader. Purchase tax is an effective way of getting around that.

What I like about it is that it screws the rich, probably more than it screws the poor.

And on the subject of buying from bulk abroad, well, I guess that what laws are for?

Swedes · 07/02/2009 21:05

Desi - I think it's a good idea. That's why we have import duties isn't it?

Desiderata · 07/02/2009 21:10

Import duties is a purchase tax, yes. If it was implemented across the board, it would work very well.

Of course, it would never happen, but a global purchase tax would eliminate tax havens overnight. No longer would rich gits be able to get away with evasion of taxes.

Sure, they're not paying income tax (which they employ very rich people themselves to avoid anyway), but if they wanted a million pound yacht, it would suddenly cost 1.5 million.

And the 0.5 million goes to fund schools and hospitals.

tumtumtetum · 07/02/2009 21:12

The americans do pay income tax and other taxes though don't they.

How does purchase tax screw the rich more than the poor?

Or are you including things like access to medical provision in your purchase tax ie not just consumables but services too.

What then happens to the people who can't pay?

Swedes · 07/02/2009 21:13

Yes the Americans also pay sales tax which is set locally.

tumtumtetum · 07/02/2009 21:21

Yes also but not entirely instead of. In USA they don't only have purchase tax do they?

How does purchase tax screw the rich more than the poor?

Are things like healthcare included as purchases or are they funded from the tax?

Is the tax purely on items you buy in shops of on other things as well.

Incidentally we do already have purchase tax here it's called VAT...

Desiderata · 07/02/2009 21:21

In my vision of purchase tax, the NHS is still free, as are local services.

But the rich would naturally pay more, because they want more.

If you want a Gucci perfume, you have to pay more for it.

toddlerama · 07/02/2009 21:24

Definitely report him. I'm self employed and declare everything - I'd love to stop to keep my head above water (my family have had to move back in with my parents as we can't afford to rent our own home anymore) but that is not acceptable. Echo what someone else said about 'the taxman' everyone loves to hate - there is no taxman, there are hospitals, schools, police, fire service etc....
It's theft of the worst kind because the whole country is the victim.