...to think that 'doing' an Indian accent is not racist?

[MrsMerryHenry]

I was thinking about an old friend this evening, and how when we used to teach EFL together (if you've ever learned a foreign language, rest assured, your teachers are laughing at your mistakes behind your back! ) all the teachers used to 'do' loads of accents - we'd all taught all over the world and so everyone had a bunch of foreign accents up their sleeves. However when my friend then 'did' an Indian accent, apparently some of the (white) teachers had a go at her and said she (white) was being racist. They didn't object to the content of what she said, just the fact that she was mimicking an Indian accent. There was a bloke of Indian origin amongst the teachers but I don't know whether he was there at the time to make a comment.

Am I the only one who thinks this is bizarre, hypocritical and rather hypersensitive political correctness? (by the way, if anyone says it's "political correctness gone mad" I shall shoot them )

Hecate, have you never subconciously adopted a bit of an accent when telling your friends something your Irish friend told you? Or holidayed somewhere like America and found yourself getting a twang in your accent?

It happens. Our ears pick up subtle differences in vocal variations and we either make sense of them by copying them or they are just stored away in your memory with a reference as to where that accent came from.

Although even if you've stored them away, you still find yourself repeating the sentence you've heard in that accent in your mind - we all do. It's our brain's way of making sense of what we've just heard and recognising that even though the vocal variation is different to ours, the word remains the same.

However sometimes even our brain fails on this and we strive to make sense of a familiar word said in an unfamiliar accent.

But some people are really good at accents so it's not always embarrassing! And even when they're crap, that can be funny too (not the accent itself but the person attempting it). DH often tries to do a geordie accent to take the p out of me & he always ends up sounding either Welsh or Indian & we fall about laughing. What is offensive about that?

What about impressionists? Are they supposed to do everyone in RP?

no it's just silly - why bother? A manchester accent wouldn\t be funny to someone from Manchester. Why by someone from London? Unless it was refering back to some stereotype which both Londoners understood (all people from Manchester sound like they're off corrie/are stupid - or what?).

My grandma has got this gift (or curse if you ask her), wherever she goes, she picks up the accent (very often not realising it herself) She has been in trouble lots and lots of time because people always assume she is making fun of them. I think she might actuallty have cameleon blood running through her veins!

I think trying on an accent is not offensive or racist unless what you say in it is.

Actually the Manchester accent IS funny and I can self-parody myself by exaggerating the accent - think Oasis.

I think you are just nit-picking now.

Quick answer to Hecate's question: huh? What a bizarre question. Why does it need explanation? If you're telling a story in which someone pulled an interesting expression, would you recount it minus the expression? If you were recounting something funny that Bart Simpson said, would it sound better with or without mimicking his voice/ accent?

as far as I am aware I have never repeated a conversation in the accent of the person who originally spoke to me.

S'ok you know, I do realise it's me I just don't get stuff like this. Stuff that's pointless. When you can't say to me "X happens because we need Y, or it gives us Z and that helps because...."

Poppycake - a Manchester accent would be funny to someone from Manchester! Just as I find some London/ Essex accents funny (where I grew up); just as my Aussie friend laughs mercilessly at some 'extreme' Aussie accents (and also mocks me ceaselessly when I try to take them off - very badly, I hasten to add )! Lighten up!

Are you saying Lily Savage don't talk funny?

There's a big difference between accidentally picking up an accent, and chosing to imitate someone.

God, Hecate, it's not a question of needing to do an accent. It's like living life seeing in black and white vs colour. We wouldn't die without colour but it makes everything more interesting.

Gorionine, I do this too! I think it's a curse of being highly musical - I naturally pick up people's accents and have to work really hard not to. In fact I sometimes wonder what my real accent is...there was a whole item on this on Woman's Hour once; it made me feel so much more normal

I don't get it either. Totally agree to Poppycake and Hecate.
Besides, mimicking a northern accent or Yorkshire accent is different from mimicking accents of people whose first language is not English.

It might not be racist,
It might be racist.

Depends on the context, the intent, the manner......

Doing a bad Indian accent has formed the core of many a racist 'joke' or piss-take...on the other hand it might be fine. Meer Syal does an accent in 'Kumars at numer 42'. Not the same thing at all in the repertoire of a hideous racist stand-up comedian.

Margo - why is it different to mimic someone who's an English learner as opposed to a native speaker?

I do laugh a lot when people try to immitate my very exotic... french accent! I never was offended by it even though my fist language is not English.

Gorionine - same here when my DH tries to copy a Nigerian accent (I am of Nigerian origin) - he's getting better at it, but it's still hilarious!

what me is that I have tried now for years to put an English one on without success

I hate it when people do a Northern accent here in London, partly 'cos they're generally saying something stupid or 'working class' in a Yorkshire accent. A crap one.

On the other hand sometimes it's fun to do an accent just to see if you can, like flaring your nostrils or waggling your ears.

I suppose if you're using the accent as a way to reinforce cultural stereotypes then it's offensive. Or if, as someone else says, someone takes offence, it's offensive.

I've worked as a TEFL teacher too and people seem to think that living in a country makes you entitled to take the piss out of it without being racist, but I don't think it does. How many TEFL teachers actually bother to learn (properly) the language of the country they're staying in? Very few, because they don't have to.

Plantsitter - I agree with you about the fun element - it's like developing a skill. However as a former TEFL teacher I've always learned the language of any country I visit, even just for a week's holiday. So far I've accumulated knowledge of Greek, Polish, Hungarian, Finnish, French, Italian, Spanish...does that excuse me mimicking accents, then?

Gorionine - have you seen 'Ridicule'? There was a very funny scene in which someone French was mocking 'les anglais et son "humour"' (said with mock English accent). If you haven't seen it, it's fantastic, well worth watching!

No MrsMerryhenry, I have not seen it yet, but you definitely got my interest going.

I Remember once walking in Portobello market with Dh and DD1 who was 2 at the time and could only speak/understand French. This stall holder started to talk to her in English and DH said to him "sorry she only understand french yet" he (the man fronm market) then just carried talking to her in english but with a very strong put on French accent so she would understand him better. DH and I were ROTFL!

rhubs that sketch was FUNNY

i find it hard to laugh at lenny henry when he does his accents

i find it hard to laugh at lenny henry

Oh MrsMerryHenry, I just googled "ridicule" I could not find the scene you are talking about but found one when they are realising they are 13 guests at the table. I will definitely make a note to take this movie out the next time I go and rent a video!

Gorionine, that's hilarious! That's like the old stereotype of Brits going abroad and shouting loudly in English, hoping people will understand them!

You've reminded me of another great French film - Le Diner des Cons. Utterly, utterly, unmissably brilliant!

J'espere que tu aimes Ridicule!

Ria, I used to find Lenny funny. That was oooh, about 25 yrs ago!

don't worry mrshenry, it attracted about as much attention as your friday night laundry threads.

this one's much better.

lenny henry isn't funny. but he's actually quite good on cbeebies big and small.