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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be annoyed at shops that sell clothes for Plus Size women but use thin models to show them off?

55 replies

Alambil · 03/02/2009 12:57

I mean REALLY annoyed.

Part of me thinks if they do it because it means their stuff really doesn't fit / suit fat people well......

Why not use the size models that reflect your target audience?

FAT PEOPLE CAN BE ATTRACTIVE TOO, you know!! So it can't be because they're ugly....

OP posts:
themoon66 · 03/02/2009 13:24

Am I alone in never considering what clothes look like on pictures of models in shops? I'm neither fat nor skinny. I flick through rails and pick out what I think might suit me. Then I try it on my own body to see if it looks good or not (more often not these days, sadly)

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 13:25

This isn't a criticism of tall, thin women, but I look at catwalks and find the way the tall thin women are presented as grotesquely characature-esque.

mayorquimby · 03/02/2009 13:26

"Not sure I agree with the statement 'clothes look better on thin people'"

and let me be clear when i used that in my post, it was not as a statement of fact, or as a means to put anyone down. what looks good is subjective, and just as people on here have been saying they know big women who are more attractive than thin women there will be people who don't find big women attractive attractive at all. ETTO.
but the general consensus in the design world seems to be that tall skinny women show off the clothes better/make the clothes themself look better. nothing to do with attractiveness as there are people like cheryl cole who are far more attractive than 99% of runway models but do not have the figure to be a runway model as designers would feel they'd distract from the clothes.

so yes you are entitled to be angry that these places don't use bigger models because it annoys you and you should make your grievances known and take bussiness else where if you so choose.
just as they are entitled to use smaller models because they think it looks better and will sell more product and at the end of the day it is their profits at stake.

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 13:29

In case my post sounded like sour grapes, it's not that I wouldn't like to be taller and thinner! but, I think women on catwalks have become parodies. Fragile giraffes.

In rl, these women I'm calling fragile giraffes, if they weren't models, they would eat and look less skeletal, less like fashion circus exhibits.

wotulookinat · 03/02/2009 13:31

Hee hee at 'lollipop heads'!!!

MuffinToptheMule · 03/02/2009 13:41

I was watching a programme a while ago. (Can't remember what it is though). There was a designer talking about what models they use and why. He said they they spend so long making the clothes that they want the attention on the clothes, not the model. A model is like a clotheshorse. If you had women of all different shapes and sizes then people would pay attention to the person and not the clothing.

Also, on the Gok Wan programme Miss Naked Beauty, one of the tasks was to do with the model dummies in the shop. They had a plus size one (14+) and had to get shops to use it.

iamaLeafontheWind · 03/02/2009 13:43

Clothes don't look better on thin people - they look beter on 2 DIMENSIONAL people i.e. a drawing board. Catwalk models are there to reflect the designer's art, not sexiness or female beauty.

Blondeshavemorefun · 03/02/2009 13:46

completley agree, they saw goes up to size 32

but never have a size 32 modelling it!!

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 13:46

Mayor quimby, do you think they take it too far though, when the vast majority of women feel nothing in common with models, that can't be good for sales! I'm not overweight but I'm small, and all my tall friends are too heavy to be models so in my entire circle of acquaintance I don't know one single normal healthy woman amongst it who could be a model.

I may be unusual here (again) but I do not own a single item of designer clothing. I only shop from high street shops.

I can articulate better now what I hate about the way tall women are presented on the catwalk, to me, as a short person, height = strength and physical advantage and possibly increased athletic ability. of this I am jealous!!! The fashion industry takes what would be physically strong women and bleeds them, saps them, drains them of their strength until they look like they should be lying on a hospital bed with a drip attached.

I love clothes but I hate the fashion industry. The two are linked I know. But I feel very comfortable not owning a single designer piece.

Sorry I've hi-jacked this thread and turned it from a rant against one high street shop into a rant about the fashion industry.

mayorquimby · 03/02/2009 13:59

"Mayor quimby, do you think they take it too far though, when the vast majority of women feel nothing in common with models, that can't be good for sales! "

i'm no expert on fashion and i'm a bloke so it is hard for me to be definite about an area such as womens fashion. i also accept that blokes do get an easier time of it as regards body image, but i don't think it's as easy as most make out, so i accept that my opinions may be skewed or not as well informed as others.
my main point for this thread was that businesses (and people in general) only do things if they feel they work or or think they'll get a desired reaction.but not only that they have the right to make bad decisions as it is them who will either succeed or fail by these decision.
so while i agree with your logic that on the face of it that it doesn't make sense for it to be good for sales, the reality probably works out different (or at least these people think it does).
i mean magazine racks are still packed with magazines featuring skinny models that sell ridiculously well.
i'd imagine that it is the same as it is for most advertising aimed at us men. for the most part we are completely alienated from the people they are using to advertise to us (beckham/ronaldo/kaka for football gear, matthew mccaughnahey/jonathan rhyse meyers for designer brands, lewis hamilton for cars) but the idea is aspiration by association even though buying a pair of adidas boots is not going to transform you from a sunday league player into kaka, nor is drinking heineken going to get you the supermodel (in fact over-indulgence in it will probably have the reverse affect) but it is the dream.

Clattered · 03/02/2009 14:03

Top designers don't make clothes, they create art, imo.

If they're such brilliant clothes designers, how come they fail utterly to make clothest that look nice on normal sized women, let alone large women?

And some clothes just suit better shapes than others - imo big swishy trousers will swamp someone of 5'0" and a size 8, and a slinky dress on someone 6'0" and a size 26 won't look good either. Clothes horses for course and all that.

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 14:05

well, the fashion industry is suffering at the moment, and i think they need to concentrate on making their items, perfume, clothes, watches appeal to a stronger more intelligent sort of woman.

There are other ways of making products seem desirable. Models can be pretty, healthy, confident, maybe use athletes, models, writers, women who appear more like people, people who have it all,, what could be more attractive than that.

I just don't and can't aspire to be a 7 stone 16 yr old model. I can envy Cate Blanchett though for example. Or even JK Rowling, or even god help me, Kate Winslett.

When everything produced seems marketed at a woman I perceive to be a weakened characature, then it's easy to keep my wallet firmly shut.

I didn't realise you were a man, I thought of you as being the mum from the Ramona and Beatrice stories!! Have read them all

salsmum · 03/02/2009 14:06

The 'good Evans' store near me all have larger ladies working in it. [im size 20 btw] Maryln [sp] Monroe was size 16plus and most men think she was very sexy. In a recent poll most men preffer women 'with meat on'

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 14:07

Clattered, so true, there's a guy near me, must be 65! but he took a dress i'd bought in a cheap shop and raised it from the shoulders and so 'raised' the waist.

It looked fabulous on. Now that's talent surely! Mkaing a five foot 2 size twelve woman look good in a cheap dress.

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 14:10

ps Mayor q, magazines sell better when they have a known personality on the cover. Jennifer Aniston for example. I know they probably have to PAY her a lot more though, but you see we are not all buying magazines to look at thin girls. That's what's served up to us.

I haven't bought a magazine in ages. I love grazia and would steal it from the dentists office! but it's a ludicrous E3.20 in Ireland. and the exchange rate is supposed to be nearly equal. that's another thread.

mayorquimby · 03/02/2009 14:13

"Maryln [sp] Monroe was size 16plus and most men think she was very sexy. In a recent poll most men preffer women 'with meat on' "

always wondered.is that true?a friend told me thatr was due to changing sizes to make women feel better.so what used to be called a 16 is now a 10 or something like that.

i'd imagine that poll is fairly reflective but ever changing. me personally i'm attracted to skinny women, it's just my personal preference but etto.

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 14:13

ps2, even Jade Goody's face on the cover of a magazine had, at one point, not sure now, the power to make it sell double.

Proof surely that when offered the choice we prefer real people.

mayorquimby · 03/02/2009 14:18

"Jade Goody"
"real people"

surely an oxymoron?

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 14:19

MM went to great lengths to make her waste small. He proportions rather than her weight were what she tweaked.

Marilyn Monroe was not size 16, not by today's standards. Most of the pictures you see of her she looks if not slim, definitely not carrying extra weight.

I think if she were around today she'd be a 12 to 14.

Your entitled to be attracted to skinny women as long as you understand that it's an unusual quirk. I am attracted to men with red hair which is extremely bloody peverted, and I'm not going to pressurise all men to go red, or make them feel unsexy if they're not red!

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 14:20

Well, when I describe JG as real, I mean to the people who buy reveal and other low-brow publications. I wouldn't ever have bought that one myself, but her face DID sell magazines at one point!!

CarryOnUpTheLiffey · 03/02/2009 14:21

Sorry I mean Waist!!!! not waste! durr

mayorquimby · 03/02/2009 14:31

"Your entitled to be attracted to skinny women as long as you understand that it's an unusual quirk. I am attracted to men with red hair which is extremely bloody peverted, and I'm not going to pressurise all men to go red, or make them feel unsexy if they're not red! "
well i wouldn't sayit was that an unusual quirk, i'd imagine it's fairly common, but my point was the same as yours. a live and let live attitude.
of course i don't think all women should be skinny or that any woman should change to please me, i was merely adding my own perspective to the poll which was quoted above.
although it is strange that it is an "unusual quirk" which i have found women to villify in the past, even though i have only expressed such preference in the context of relevant conversations and would never try to force it upon anyone.

MaryAnnSingleton · 03/02/2009 16:12

A friend of mine wrote this on a fatblog - you might be interested in her opinion :

This whole plus-sized model thing really gets to me on a number of counts.

Firstly, quite often, a plus-sized clothing manufacturer will say they tried using proper plus-sized models in their catalogues and that it adversely affected their sales. From this they deduce that fat women prefer to see skinnier, "aspirational" role-models, electing to bullshit ourselves we will look just like they do in the clothes on offer. Personally I do want to see what a garment is going to look like on me, especially if I'm considering buying it online. But, much as it pains me to admit it, I also think those plus-sized manufacturers may have a point.

Fashion shoots aimed at non-plus-sized women always feature aspirational images ? granted they make most women, regardless of size, feel like absolute shit about themselves, but they are nonetheless the norm and we've all been brainwashed to accept them as such. My theory is that there is such an enormous gulf between the aspirational imagery routinely used to tempt non-plus-sized shoppers and our own fat reality that despite saying we want to see our own likenesses in fashion shoots, many of us don't handle that reality too well. It's too radical a jump and it shocks us; possibly even confounds the sense of freakishness that being largely ignored by mainstream fashion imbues us with. (Though it could also be that most of the clothes are unimaginative and unflattering and once we clock ?em on a plus-sized model we?d rather save our money).

Secondly, the defence given to justify the use of models who look like Belsen victims is because the mainstream manufacturers tend to make up and supply samples for fashion shoots in exceptionally small sizes. (This puny justification is invariably presented as if it?s a personal decree from God and therefore inviolable, despite the fact it sets an unhealthy and unrealistic precedent which sends women the world over completely doolally. But I digress). I imagine that where plus-sizes are concerned, the same rule obtains; if a plus-sized manufacturer starts at a size 12 or 14, then that?s the size their samples will be. Ergo that?s the size the model will be. Now, one might think that, given the market they are serving, and the market research one assumes they must do, plus-sized clothing manufacturers would care enough about us to do challenge this sorry state of affairs. But here?s the kicker: I have a friend who is a specialist in plus-sized marketing and she assures me that the majority of US plus-sized manufacturers, including incidentally, Lane Bryant...are either run by non-plus-sized folk or part of multi-conglomorates run by non-plus-sized folk. Which certainly explains the grudging attitude and lack of imagination used when designing for us.

The fashion industry simply doesn?t welcome plus-sized people ? as consumers or practitioners; think ?The Devil Wears Prada?. It?s comprised of skinny-arsed women and skinny-arsed gay men talking amongst themselves. It?s virtually a closed shop. If anything is ever going to change, we need fat designers, stylists, photographers and make-up artists; we need plus sized art directors and manufacturers, never mind plus-sized models. In short, it is up to us to effect the changes ourselves.

Tiramissu · 03/02/2009 16:50

UANBU

What annoys me about Evans and other plus stores is that ALL their big size tops come with 3/4 sleeves !

I know they say that this sleeve suppose to be flattering for fuller figures but i really hate it.

BalloonSlayer · 03/02/2009 17:05

Tiramisu, I think that might be a "Trinny and Susannah" thing - I gather that a woman's wrists and hands are one of the thinnest places on her body so T&S would say that they ought to be on show.

Another reason to hate them

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