Not to want to borrow more money we can't pay back?

[BorgLady]

I'm up in the middle of the night (nothing unusual with 6 month old DS, but this time I can't sleep) because I'm just so cross and I need some thoughts because I really can't tell anyone else about this.

I'm really awful at confrontation and I need to know whether this is worth making a stand over before I say a lot of things I can't take back.

Basically, my situation is this. DP and I been together 2 years. I got pregnant only a few months into our relationship and had the most godawful pregnancy where I felt dire most of the time.

When we met, I was in a reasonably well-paid job, but only on temp contract, so when I got pregnant and signed off with sickness etc, my contract was not renewed. We live in a very deprived area so with recession etc, I could never get same level of job back and would never be able to earn more than minimum wage so I have decided and love being a SAHM.(which I am so sick of justifying in my own head)

Up until this week, I have been on Maternity Allowance, but now I have switched from that to Child Benefit and Tax Credits, which as I'm sure you all know, isn't a hill of beans. I am getting £38 a week now.

The way DP and I have worked so far is that he has been paying the mortgage and the bills and I have been buying everything for DS and our food.

I have been feeling awful about this, because he works really hard, has a reasonable wage, but has nothing left over. This is one of the reasons he split up with his ex, she squandered a lot of money and he paid for both of them. At the time I thought it was terrible, and now I feel like he's in the same situation and must be feeling trapped again. I'm petrified he's unhappy with me and I worry so much that we're only together because of DS.

So, basically I make sure that he has lots of outlets, so that he still enjoys his life and doesn't feel smothered by us. He is a man who is very passionate about his hobbies, he plays guitar in a band and has built his own computer. The last thing I want to be is someone who curtails him, so over the last year, I bought him two guitars and everything he needed for his PC, plus a complete set of outdoor gear: boots, jacket, trousers etc as recently I encouraged him to take up kayaking with my dad, which is now the problem.

My dad is a lovely man, but he's a serial bankrupt with no regard for money whatsoever. He doesn't see why he shouldn't have everything he wants, and this attitude ruined my parents' marriage and has caused lots of resentment in his family as he has borrowed lots of money and never paid it back.

DP has been kayaking twice with my dad. He loves it, as I knew he would, and now he spends every spare moment on ebay looking for gear. He keeps buying little bits, so far nothing too expensive, but I must admit it has niggled me, when I have been trying to economise by turning the heating off and only using half the amount of washing powder etc.

I went to my sister's with DS tonight and she had bought me a bag of clothes from Primark because she thought I needed cheering up. I felt so ashamed because I used to be a real hottie and now all my clothes are washed out and old and she obviously felt sorry for me.

Then when I came back, my dad had been over and been chatting to DP about kayaking. My dad is really pushing DP into buying a kayak. He keeps sending him links to second hand kayaks on the net, which aren't too expensive, but still £300-£400, which we so haven't got. He wants him to borrow the money from my grandfather, who would lend it willingly because he's sweet-hearted and really likes my DP.

He doesn't need to buy a kayak, my dad has one that he can borrow which belongs to my uncle, who only uses it rarely. My grandad doesn't have a lot of money at all, he lives on his pension only, and only has the money because my grandmother died in November and he got £2000 bereavement benefit.

When I got home, I said to my DP that I didn't want to borrow any more money, as we borrowed £200 from my other grandad to buy a dishwasher last year and have only managed to pay back £40. We racked my credit card up to £5000 when I was unemployed to get stuff for the house and buy food once a week and I'm now paying £100 a month interest only. We also owe my mum £300 which I will come to in a moment. I also think it would look really bad to have him kitted out like that when we are behind on the mortgage and I'm always pleading poverty whenever there's a family event.

He said "So it's ok for you to borrow money when you want an engagement ring?" and that is the bit that has really hurt me. We put my engagement ring on my mum's credit card and have been paying her back whenever he does a private job.

It makes me think he doesn't really want to marry me, that I have pressured him into it (I proposed on his 30th last year) and he felt obliged to say yes because of DS.

I have gotten up because I just feel so awful now. Everywhere I look are guitars and amps and clothes I bought him, my sister is buying me clothes and I have no time to pursue my own hobbies any more and he begrudges me even my engagement ring.

Do you think we have any hope at all? I am so sorry for waffling on, but I do feel a bit better than I have gotten it all out now. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Yes I do think you have hope BUT....

You really have to sit down and talk this situation through or else you are going to end up in the most god awful financial mess.

You already owe £5000 on credit cards
£160 to your grandpa
£300 to your Mum

He cannot afford to buy bloody bits for his hobbies at the moment and you both really couldn't afford to buy your engagement ring either. For fear of sounding slightly harsh - I think you are both being a tad irresponsible with regards to money. Sort out the paying back bit first, forget all the "he doesn't want to be with me" stuff, stop feeling sorry for him and yourself and get on with the job in hand. You are already on the slippery slope, I'd love to have some new clothes, not to have to really tighten my purse strings at the supermarket, to go out for lunch with my pals every week, to have my nails and feet done every month, to have my hair coloured every six weeks not twelve as it's too expensive.....the list is endless.

The country is in recession and times are hard.

Have a chat, you both need to work together, I feel at the moment you are pulling in opposite directions.

Sorry for nagging

You need to both stop spending money you don't have! You don't actually need an engagement ring, guitars, a dishwasher or kayaking bits. You both need to quit it with the "I want so we'll borrow and get." and get busy with keeping your finances stable and then repaying the money you already owe. Can you get a part time job? Even in areas of high unemployment there's often part time jobs going in supermarkets or the catering industry which could be at a time when your dp is home to look after your ds. Or how about a cleaning job? Once again, hours are often very flexible and it's usually quite well paid. Depending on how destructive or not your dp is you may even be able to take him with you.

If you are able to look around and see lots of stuff in your house - how about trying to sell some of the things that aren't used to raise a bit of cash?

What are your hobbies that you're not able to do now? Your dp can already already do kayaking for no extra cost. There should be lots of fun stuff you can both do that won't cost you anything. What do you like doing?

BorgLady (fab name by the way).

Firstly, you did not pressure him into anything - he was in a relationship with you and you had a baby - he is the Dad. It is absolutely right that he pays the mortgage and the bills to keep a roof over both your heads. Your DS is entitled to that and you as his Mum are entitled to that to.

You say he works really hard - don't you work equally hard caring for his son and looking after the house?

I appreciate that you don't want to curtail him but equally you need some time for yourself as well. What about your social life and hobbies? Do you get any time and money to do things? It sounds from your post that you consider his feelings an awful lot - what does he do to consider yours?

He needs to face reality - times are hard - the income coming into the house is joint - not his. You need to suggest that you both sit down and look at financial matters. As for the engagement ring - I think you need to point out that he is spending money you haven't got on bits and pieces, you look after your baby, keep house and he begrudges you the engagement ring. I would point out how hurtful his comment is.

Take a deep breath this weekend and then tackle him on it.

To be honest your DP is being a bit selfish and you seem to be encouraging it as you feel guilty.

At the end of the day you cant afford guitars and kayaking so he needs to learn to cut back too!

We have been in a similar position, we were only together for 9 months before I got pregnant and we found finances a real struggle to begin with.

My DP loves gadgets and would happily buy them on a whim but he knows now that we cant afford to so he waits and saves till we can.

Your family are going to get annoyed with you spending when you owe so much and then they will refuse to help in the future when you may need it most.

I think you and DP need to sit down and start sorting things out, can you get a credit card with 0% and transfer the balance? would DP consider selling one of his guitars to raise some cash? When DP built his pc did he have any old bits that you could sell on ebay?
You need to stop feeling guily about spending DPs money because you are a family now and its the family money and if you are trying to reduce costs then so should he.
He can still have a kayak but not until you have paid back what you owe!

You are all right, thank you so much.

I have lived too much of my life with a bad attitude towards money, probably because of my dad. Half of me hates it because I know how destructive it is, and the other half of me wants to enjoy myself and not care, the way he does.

I haven't spent any money on myself in the last year, although I have gotten a lot of pleasure out of getting bits for DS, and I have been very thrifty, getting them on ebay etc. I suppose my baby has been my hobby, and I have loved being a mum so much, it's so much better and more rewarding than any job I have ever had, and I am terrified I will have to go back to work.

DP doesn't see the harm in sending DS to a nursery, but I couldn't bear the thought while I am working in a soul-destrying shop for minimum wage like I used to.

I think I have been pretending we are not as badly off as we are so that he doesn't insist I go back to work.

I know, I'm an idiot!

Both our ex partners hang over us a lot I think. His was a horribly selfish cow and mine was a married man who started the affair because his wife was boring after she had a baby! I've put myself under a lot of pressure trying to learn from those mistakes and I think it's time to let go somehow.

Thanks, I do appreciate it all.

I too will be honest.

you need a job!!.

Wether its part time stacking shelves in the supermarket or cleaning floors in a school,you need more money.

you need to value yourself as a person not how youre giftwrapped with new clothes and engagement rings -you need hobby apart from your ds that you can pursue -learn french at nightschool,go on a course to learn acryluc nails anything take up salsa dancing.

You are not your dps mum your not his provider, you dont need to 'buy' him things to prove your love.

The engagement ring and kayaking stuff isnt essential and all spending should stop now.

You dont have to put your ds in a nursery to earn few extra quid work around your dp and your family - ive scrubbed floors at tesco whilst my babies slept,ive stacked shelves at tesco whilst they were t home with their daddy after tea- i even used to work testing lightbulbs whilst dh looked after the kids i used to work 2pm - 10pm and he started at 10pm til 6am my fil used to come and sit with the babies for an hour every night and that got us out of debt- my dh didnt want me to do it it was a monotonous boring jhob but i earnt decent money doing it.

"but I couldn't bear the thought while I am working in a soul-destrying shop for minimum wage like I used to."

But you can bear the thought of borrowing money from people that you can't afford to pay back or maxing out your credit card to buy luxuries? That's what things you don't actually need are.

If you don't want to put your ds in a nursery then maybe a cleaning job where you could take him with you (if he's not destructive!) would suit. Alternatively, as Nickschick says, you can work evenings or weekends.

Whilst you are doing this, maybe your dp could be in charge of selling surplus/not really necessary items to raise some extra cash.

Just because a job is minimum wage doesn't mean it will be soul destroying. Have a look and see what is out there if you like kids there will be jobs for assistants in childcare and in schools available (there always are) and this would at least give you something.

I dont think your dp is being any more unreasonable than you are really. Why is it ok to borrow money for dishwasher and an engagement ring but not for a kayak? None of these are necessities.

If you (as a family )cant manage on your dp's wage then you need to look for work , as others have said.

I'd be thinking damn hard about spending £400 on a hobby or kayak - and I am in a slightly better financial situation.

There has been loads of sensible advice here, no need to reiterate it, but you need to sort out the essentials from the non essentials and budget accordingly. With the level of debt and the level of income, paying off your debts, so you stop wasting £100 a month on interest, has to be a priority.

Going back to work was one of the most sensible things I have done. It is not just about the money (although it certainly helps), but it gives you self belief and money of your own which is important. My DH was great when I was a SAHM, but I still felt guilty when I spent "his" money on an expensive haircut.

I agree with what the others have said.You are not responsible for your DPs happiness.He is a grown man with responsibilities.
I think it would be a good idea to get a part time job even if itn is only in the evenings when your DP is at home ,or could your Dad mind your little one ,one day a week.
I would be wanting my DP to ebay some of the stuff you've bought him too.
Could you get a loan for £5000 on abetter interest rate and close down the bloody credit card account.

just to add to all the sensible advice already here - you don't need to be working full time - you can still be having lots of quality time with your ds and be earning enough so you keep your heads above water.

Being in debt is bad for your finances and bad for your self confidence. Also think of your DS - OK he's not going to be taking much notice at the moment, but I'm determined that my dds will see that we look after ourselves and don't ask for hand outs from anyone. (I'm not some right wing nutter, btw, it's just the standards I impose on myself).

Get a job, get yourself back to zero so you can start saving. Even hobbies can make money too! If he loves the PCs so much, perhaps he could do some mending of them on the side? You don't need an engagement ring either!!

How about getting a part-time job for when your DP is off? You could work a couple of evenings and a Saturday, maybe? You won't have to worry about using a nursery and even £100 more a month coming in will make a big difference and you could really start chipping away at your debts.

I think in a few months you will feel differently about working. I had to return to work when DS was 6 months old so we could stay afloat financially. I hated it but by the time he was a year old I was enjoying myself and I know I would have wanted to go back eventually. I would really struggle to stay home and do a good job of being a mum without feeling resentful of the limitations that would place on my own life. The way you are talking it sounds like you already resent how much your DP has outwith your family life. I also feel that as kids get older they genuinely do benefit from being around other kids, which is a benefit of childcare that is often overlooked.

I think you need to talk to your DP frankly, now, about money and attitudes and then budget together as a family. And I also think you need to get yourself a part-time job. Find a nice childminder, find yourself a part-time job (while there still are some jobs going) and try to get your finances onto an even keel. That way if, down the line, your DP does let you down money-wise, you have got a leg to stand on. Plus, I think tax credits tend to reward you for working if you do more thsn 16 hours.

Thanks again to everyone, I know you are right, I have been rather extravagant and indulgent (though how ANYONE lives without a dishwasher is beyond me ) but I have decided that will end from today.

I did as someone suggested and phoned up my credit card company. They have given me a financing loan which isn't much cheaper than the repayments, but at least I am paying it off.

I have also spoken to DP's friend who works in the advertising industry about the possibility of me helping him out from home. He's always moaning about having to sort his invoices etc ... and he jumped at the chance!

So hopefully that's a step in the right direction. DS is napping now, so I'm off with a camera around the house to see what I can ebay. Probably not my dishwasher though, if you don't mind ....

Impressive start BorgLady! Good luck.

Well done! Good for you about being proactive and getting some work.

I wouldn't get rid of the dishwasher myself. Besides being a sanity saver, they are somewhere neat to keep dirty dishes!!!!

Well done BorgLady for your very positive actions in speaking to your credit card company and finding some work! Good luck with the Ebaying.

BTW before I could afford a dishwasher I coped with a bottle of Fairy and a washing up brush, tea towel, etc.!

Thanks to my dad's spendthriftery, I have had a dishwasher in my life since childhood. When I moved in with DP I lasted about three months with washing up before I sold my soul to get one.

Call me a spoilt princess, but I'd rather get rid of my tumble dryer, my central heating and my TV than my dishwasher!