to think that it is wrong for someone to have treatment that enabled them to have eight babies.

[wannaBe]

Of course it's good that the babies in question here are alive and appear to be doing well.

But this should never have been allowed to happen.

Women are not designed to give birth to litters of babies - this is evidenced by the fact it is not possible to carry this many babies to term, or even close to term. In fact it is pretty much accepted that if you fall pregnant with that many babies it is unlikely that they will all survive.

This woman was obviously desparate enough for a baby to have some kind of fertility treatment, and now she has eight babies, (eight children is something which most families do not contemplate over a lifetime, let alone in one go). Presumably she would have been offered the option of selective reduction when it was discovered she was carrying so many, but IMO it shouldn't get to that point - she should never have been given the kinds of drugs that enabled her to conceive that many babies in the first place.

It is just wrong on every level.

Why is it wrong? Maybe she did not feel able to terminate a foetus/baby that had started growing inside her - whether it was one of 2 or one of 8.

'selective reduction ' is termination of life and some people have very, very strong views on this issue.

you have opened a very controversial can of worms!

I know nothing about fertility drugs, so your saying there is a fertility drug that allows muliple births? could she have been given a different drug that would only produce one birth?

Also i am assuming this is a rarity and not all women having fertility treatment will go on to have so many babies.

So if you are saying that women shouldnt be allowed fertility treatment then YABU

If you are saying that she should have chosen to have a selective reduction then imo YABU

All the babies are fine, mother is fine, nobody got hurt, what exactly is your problem?

no, she shouldn't have felt that she had to terminate any of her babies - that is not what I said. I said that although she would have been offered the option of selective reduction she shouldn't have got to that point in the first place, i.e. those responsible for her fertility treatment should act more responsibly in not giving the kind of drug doses or implanting the number of embrios(as obviously don't know whether it was fertility drugs or IVF) that enabled her to conceive eight babies.

The decision should not come down to the mother - if she was having fertility treatmet those responsible for that treatment should be more responsible..

I can understand both points here. I can fully understand why the mother would not have wanted a selective termination but I do question the ethics of giving someone treatment that enabled the conception of 8 children.

Having said that I also understand that when these ov stimulating drugs are given the ovaries are monitored and if many egges are released I believe it is the norm to advise the woman concerned to abstain from sex. If the parents went against medical advice it is difficult to see how that is the fault of the treatment provider.

All rather difficult. It's a miracle they are all healthy and doing well.

She would not have actively planned to have eight children would she? The news on this story has been quite sketchy so it is difficult to comment because I don't really know the facts.

I think in the US with IVF they put in as many embryos as the parents request, whereas in the UK they limit it to 2 max. People like to have more put in as each has lowish chance of making it and it obviously increases the odds of getting pg.

Not sure if the octuplets were the result of IVF though or other fertility drugs.

Same as VT - i don't know much about fertility treatment but I am presuming that it is unusual for so many babies to implant.

YABU if you think that fertilty treatment should not be allowed or that somone who finds themselves in this position should abort some of the babies.

It's not ideal, no. But the very same reason that the drug allowed her to conceive 8 times in one go is the reason that it works for so many women who would otherwise be unable to have children. Are you saying they should be denied the drug just in case they also have so many babies at once as a consequence??

That would truly be unfair IMO, especially when most of these fertility drub multiple pregnancies only result in twins.

Selective reduction aside.

It is wrong to either transfer 8 embryos to a woman or for her to take the muliple ov drugs without contraception. It is knowingly putting yourself and your children at huge risk. Aside from the huge strain on the medical infrastructure that a large multiple birth can cause surely the risks for all are too great.

i was under the impression that these days, less eggs are being returned to the uterus , so i would imagine she had something to stimulate her ovaries and released lots of eggs or they all split into multiples?

i agree that 8 babies is so far from teh norm as to be incredible. BUT once those babies are in utero, choosing which ones to abort via selective reduciton, well, i could not make that choice..

the fact she got to 31 weeks is amazing.

i am not sure that the sort of drug that potentially means 8 babies is a good one

but i am sure that ethics committees etc will have debated it before it could be given

and it is not like it happens all the time

but there is a huge strain on resources with a multiple birth of this type. but it is rare

i can see each POV on this one

i don;t think that selective reduction can and should be forced on women

i am not sure how ethical it is for women to be in the position of carrying 8 babies

but then that is better than never having any babies?

but what if they don;t survive?

am really torn

think this is an interesting question

I am shocked if it is correct that in the US as many embryos are put back as requested!

I don't think you can judge her unless you have some concept of what its like to be infertile. Its all very well being judgey when you can concieve naturally.

I am lucky in that I have found making babies quite easy the natural way. My son has given me so much joy its unbelievable. Why deny that joy to parents who find concieving hard?

Any medical treatment carries a risk and its a balance of risk. It is very rare for fertility treatment to result in quite so many babies. I am glad for this woman that she has lived and all her babies are alive at the moment. I just hope the family continues to thrive.

Agree with Theochris that it's wrong to transfer 8 embryos to a woman, as an octuplet pregnancy is so hugely risky for the mother and babies. I don't know enough about the effect of multiple ovulation drugs to comment.

without knowing what sort of treatment she had, it is really hard to comment, but i am presuming it was something that hyperstimulated her ovaries.. i doubt 8 embryos would be retunred, but i don;t know..

Normally the multiple ov drugs are given prior to egg harvest for IVF and women are usually encouraged to use contraception to prevent something like this happening.

If she did not or the doctor transfered 8 embryos I think that was a bad choice. You only hear the good stories, the sad ones don't make the news.

Still good luck to her and her family now they are here.

vt, fertility treatment in the US is not regulated in the same way as in this country.

So, if a woman has IVF for instance and produces eight embrios, she can opt to have all of those eight embrios put back, thus potentially resulting in eight babies.

Multiple births are much more prevalent in the states than in this country for exactly this reason.

And that is what is wrong.
The mother is not to blame in any way. She would have been having fertility treatment in order to conceive a most likely much longed for baby. I imagine it is highly, highly unlikely that anyone going through fertility treatment would even think it possible to conceive eight babies.

But when people have fertility treatments they put their trust in doctors who are there to help them conceive that much longed for baby. And those doctors should, IMO, act more responsibly in ensuring that while they do everything to try to help that woman to conceive, it should not be to the potential detriment of her's or her potential babies' health and even lives.

The chances of eight babies surviving is almost unheard of. So when allowing a woman to conceive eight babies will they have told her of the implications? i.e. that the babies would be born very prematurely and that she would probably have to watch most of them die? Or that they may have severe medical complications due to their premature birth?

A woman desparate to conceive does not always think rationally about this sort of thing, and so it should fall to the medical profession to act more responsibly in the first place.

Perhaps the doctors involved thought that most of the embryos would 'naturally' abort ( - I don't like using that term, but I don't know what word would be better)? And perhaps all involved were amazed as week after week went by, and that didn't happen. And once they'd become 'babies' in the mother's mind, I can see how she might have refused selective termination. I think that saying that someone 'allowed' this to happen in a reckless way is probably wrong: I should think that this was an exceptional case.

Sorry, but LOL at Lulumama and her minor schizophrenia regarding this question!

I feel exactly the same as her though, and I think if/when all the facts are known, it will be a really fascinating debate to have.

presumably they assumed that they wouldn't all develop? Not saying it's right that they put 8 in in the first place......

Mind you must have been a shock to think you were having 7 babies, and then after the 7th was delivered get a "oops there's another one in here".

I don't support the implantation of that many embryos but it could be the result of a hyper reaction to fertility drugs (As with that UK woman who conceived 8 but they all dies many years ago- I know she was told not to take it but it proves it can happen). Could also be a frea accident-- there are old cases of six babies or so after all, pre-dating fertility treatment as we know it.

Would need more info to condemn I think.

Ok i just done some quick research and one of the single biggest risks of fetility treatment is multiple births, now if doctors can mininmise the risk of multiple birth while still increasing the risk of getting pg then i agree this is what should be done, however i dont know enough about that particular case to form an opinion, and say this is what they should have done in this case, but i can see what you are trying to say

Yes i do agree with your last post wannabe

i know ! my head is spinning

i wonder how much was driven by the doctors wanting to have 8 healthy babies and get themselves a bit of publicity and recognition?

because if all 8 survive, that is a huge deal for medics