To want to knee this chap in the GingGangGoolies

[CuttySark]

My daughter has joined a local scout group.
She is registered disabled (not that this should make any difference but it seems to)...anyway, any activity, trip out etc the scout leader has either been less than helpful with the info or has phoned us at the last minute and this has led to our daughter missing out on a lot.

I have asked if they would write things down for her (she can barely write and becomes confused by dates and numbers).They have not done this.

There is a 'camp' coming up and her big brother is going along as her carer and had to fill in the disclosure form. Except the scout leader messed up the form but did not tell my son this then demanded that we come in with a new form immediately or dd would not get to camp.
We managed to get the other form filled in and handed in but no apology and no confirmation that she is going to camp.

Finally, there was a trip at the weekend but they left without her but phoned me from the motorway to say she was not there. I tried to catch them but the bloody scout leader kept phoning me (while I was driving) to say they were doing 65mph and I would have to do at least 75 to catch them.

Am I being unreasonable to;

1. Think he is being a bit discriminatory ?
2. To shove his woggle where the sun does not shine?

cutty yanbu - I'd have driven her all the way to camp and if he'd refused to accept her punched his lights out. What a total cock - electrocution is too good for him. Sorry but I feel so angry on your daughters behalf - how must she feel in all of this bless her?

If you have a phone number for the SL, I would phone directly and ask him questions re trips (as someone has already suggested) You may get hold of a wife/girlfriend who is a lot more understanding and knowledgable (says the wife of a very unhelpful SL )

I'm guessing there isn't another Scout Group nearby she could change to?

The guy sounds like a tosser and that "you just haven't been caught yet" comment is outrageous - unless of course he says it to everyone who returns a CRB check, which seems unlikely. Ask to see the Inclusion Policy, and escalate your concerns. Leave out the badge stuff, which isn't his fault or problem, but he should be making your DD feel included and wanted.

I am now spitting feathers.

He emailed to say that there is swimming tomorrow night and sent a criteria list for badges. I have looked at the swimming one and gone over it with my daughter (who is learning how to swim) but she did not understand the concept of the depth of water, she cannot assess safe areas etc.

I asked her how she felt about the scouts and she told me that it is lovely to see the other girls there but she finds it hard to make eye contact with the leader and did her hands in a 'so-so' motion.

I emailed him to express our concerns that she is unable to assess the criteria.
His reply was, and I quote "We will go over criteria if scouts want to do badges". That is it. There is no reply to my concern that she does not understand the criteria nor the fact she cannot swim.
He did not answer if my son has been cleared or not so he cannot go with her.
My dh says he is going to keep an eye on her tomorrow when she is swimming (as she is really excited about it) as he feels it is his responsibility to make sure she is ok as the leaders will be busy doing badge work with many other scouts.
He has not been disclosed but he would rather she were safe and watched over.

Hi CS, am new onto the thread but have some experience as I run a Rainbows group. SAdly not all volunteers are as good as I am but there is such a lack of people willing to do these things, its not easy to weed out the less competent ones. Has he been doing it long? It sound like he is either inexperienced and needs further mentoring/training, or is very experienced but from the days when rules and regs very very different, and can't hack it now.

Surely you get basic newsletters and have to fill in consent forms for trips, including swimming, away from scout usual meeting place? So you have a record of times, dates etc, and any changes are made in writing or phone call so there is NO confusion. I know scouts are older and most should remember messages, but it is not rocket science. Going without your dd is inexcusable, once we rang a girl who had overslept for a 4 am start on school trip to france and picked her up on the way- they should have rung to check what was going on before they left.

Re: the disclosure thing, it should not matter for the swimming, as the children will all be under more than 1:1 supervision. Only an issue for the residential where your son might have access to other kids unsupervised. MAny units cannot run without the occassional willing volunteer to be there just as extra pair of hands or eyes to supervise, they do NOT all need CRB checks. Even the mums who help the kids at school getting changed for swimming do not need to be checked!

What he said about "not been caught yet" is true, and a bit of a joke to all involved. The scheme is literally not worth the paper its written on as the form comes back and is ONLY proof that you have NO RECORD (ie not caught) AND is only accurate on the day it is produced - totally daft system but thats another thread!

Thank you all for replying to this.
Dh who is calmer and cooler than me is going to have a chat with the leader tomorrow while keeping an eye on dd.
We do not want dd to feel that scouts is a negative experience in any way so will explain to the (youngish) leader that some of his scouts are perhaps less able to understand instructions, dangers, situations etc and we will be happy to speak with a senior scout advisor with him about handling situations with special needs children.

We will also hopefully discuss improved communication with plenty of time to enable us to be prepared

Fingers crossed that it all works out and if it does not then the woggle gets it.

CuttySark x

Im a new poster on here but as a Cub scout leader and the mum of a scout I wanted to reply. Dont let this 1 person put you and your DD off Scouting. in our Cub pack we have a severly phisically (sorry about the spelling) and mentally disabled girl, we make sure that we include her in as much as we possibly can, we make sure walks are wheelchair friendly, get her involved in the craft activities and games and she has been canoeing.
With regard to not knowing whats going on, I have always thought our scout leaders were a bit disorganized but if anything is happening other than the weekly meeting at the usual place they send out a letter about it, at that age lots of kids are not good at passing on messages (my DD is terrible). As others have said I think you need to speak to someone at district level about this person to try and sort this all out.
I dont know if you already know this about getting badges but at the end of the info about each badge is this message-
If you need help designing alternatives to these requirements for those with special needs please contact the Special Needs Office at Gilwell Park.
so if your DD is unable to do some of the requirements of the badge she still has the chance of getting it.

CS, please post with an update when you have decided what to do. I really hope this will get resolved for your dd.

CS, this is awful for your DD.

My eldest has been through cubs, scouts and is now an explorer. He has been extremely fortunate to have an outstanding team of leaders all the way. It has been the making of him, and should also be for your DD especially as you say she is quite otherwise isolated through home-schooling, etc. TBH the adults he has spent time with have been as much friends and excellent role models to him as the other kids. That is the whole point of the organisation imo. I would echo what others have said about looking around for another group. What you are describing is definitely not typical of the scout organisation, but as you are aware, the leaders are all volunteers, and if this chap is not confident or willing enough to deal with and include special needs adequately, unfortunately I think there's every chance any intervention from District level etc will make no difference.

I hope there are other groups around you which you will be able to look into, and hopefully find an alterntive one if that's what you decide to do. Good luck.

Hmm. I went round to speak to him last night (and was slightly thrown by his left handed handshake but realised it was a scout one)...he comes over as being quite abrupt and terribly full of himself.
He started boasting about how he organises the biggest camp in June, etc and I asked him if he realised that some of the children may not be able to understand some instructions and also if he understood about inclusion? His reply was "Yes, you should see the amount of burned hands and injuries from campfires. She (dd) would be expected to try the same tasks as the others. We push them to reach their full potential".
I realised that he was an utter prat and possibly a very irresponsible one at that.

He also said that the camp next weekend would probably be impossible for us to reach as the area gets snowed off.
Well the area in question is not so very far from our house and yes, we still have lots of snow but are capable of getting our way about, albeit with care. I felt he did not want us to try.He also said that if anything happened to my son then she would be unsupervised.

I am going to wait until after the camp then speak to his senior.

Jesus he is unreal so sorry this is your exeprience, pretty sure BP would be turning in his grave (although he might have donethat at a DD being there in the first pla ce)

He is a complete tosser and the sooner he starts to accept that what he's doing is discriminatory the better. Would be surprised if he doesn't put a few more barrier up better now and the camp tho' so don't be too surprised if he tries to make it (even) more difficult. Just really for your poor dd

between not better

I had to walk away really quickly as I wanted to inflict pain on him ( completely against my nature) but I was frustrated at his ignorance and arrogance.
He wants to travel in convoy to the camp but it would be mad for us to do this as we are quite near the place already and the road is one of the worst in Scotland so it is crazy to travel on it late at night. (We live in air ambulance territory here as it is so remote)

My son is very calm and will be watching his little sister like a hawk but he is very aware that this leader is showing blatant discrimination and trying, as you say, to put up barriers.

I am horrified at this guys attitude. It smacks of him not knowing how to deal with your DD and therefore making it so bad it forces you to withdraw her from the troop. Please please please speak to the District Commissioner asap. Guess from what you've said that there isn't another Troop nearby you could swap to?

If he was any good as a Leader, his Troop would not be going home with burns What a Twat.

He sounds a complete adn utter twat! A poncetastic, slimy, disgraceful little sod who gives all other scout leaders a bad name.

Please please put a complaint in writing to his superior. You cannot let a guy like this bully you and your dd.

And wrt the burns at the campfire - our scoutleaders would be strung up if they were seen to be boasting about the injuries children receive under their care!

(err, that last bit sounds wrong, our scout leaders are very careful, sometimes to much so, so no boasting about injuries to be done anyway)

AS the others have said, get his arse reported asap. Well done on showing such self-restraint!