to wonder if perhaps only christians should celebrate christmas?

[gingertabbywithsnowypaws]

what do you think.

i am COE btw

'others' being 'welcomed into church' ginger who are the others? how are they being welcomed?

I'm happy sticking with celebrating the winter solstice and not Christmas. We like the more pagan elements of the festival anyway.

But I couldn't celebrate something called Winterval.

yes fennel, it sounds like thermal pants.

If you are being strictly Christian then Christmas is not a major festival at all. The most important festival in the Christian calender is Easter. (Which has nicked the name of a pagan festival) Christians celebrate Jesus every day of the year.

However like anyone else, I like a good party in the middle of winter. As far as I am concerned everyone is welcome to party.

I am catholic and it's not that I don't think people should celebrate Christmas, but I do get annoyed when people, for example, my neices and nephews, celebrate it but don't seem to have recognise AT ALL that it's a celebration of the birth of Christ, IYSWIM.

I agree with whoever said about it being all about presents etc now.

I don't not agree with the presents and the lights, but I do like to make a point of doing odd things to remind people around me (family and friends) what we are actually meant to be celebrating, i.e. My DDs have a nativity scene advent calender (each day they add another character to the scene) and I send religious cards, and I make a point of telling my DH's family that I won't be there for Chrismtas dinner until 1pm as I will be taking the DCs to mass on Christmas morning etc etc.

What annoys me is my DH's family all had their kids christened but never take them to church, not even at Christmas.

I just don't think it would do kids (or anyone) any harm to spend one hour of Christmas Day at church.

Would just like to add, I think the idea of a Winter celebration is great as winter is so dull and shitty. I for one would love to keep all the outdoor lights up til at least end of Feb .

The early christians did not celebrate Christmas at all.

I doult I will be going to church on Christmas day. I will have too much to do. I do attend church at other times though.

What a lot of old shite.

Squitten - "if you don't like [religious imagery], don't look at it." What about when it's in my workplace and when it's year round? Why should I be confronted with this tosh? Keep it in your own house, FFS!

Goodchristmasgirl - "I just don't think it would do kids (or anyone) any harm to spend one hour of Christmas Day at church." It wouldn't do them any harm to spend an hour feeding soup to malodorous rough sleepers either, but how many kids do that on Christmas Day or ever? Why should they spend an hour of their lives listening to something they neither value or believe in (which they won't unless an adult has told them to in the first place - we are not born religious.)

If you (and other Christians, however sincere) choose to attend church on this or any other day, that is entirely your affair. What's it to you whether I join you? "it's a celebration of the birth of Christ"; "what we are actually meant to be celebrating"; who says that's what it is and that's what we're "meant to" be celebrating? It certainly isn't in my house because I'm an agnostic. It's a bank holiday - read into it what you will and let others do the same.

Actually, I don't think crosses, crucifixes etc, should be on permanent display in a crematorium 'chapel' that is to be used by everyone (ie not exclusively for the use of Christians). It is about the only situation I can think of where people who are not christians might actually feel a bit upset to have all the iconography of a religion they (and their family, and the deceased) have no interest or belief in.

As the only Christian in my extended family I'd get very lonely celebrating Christmas on my own. Would save on presents though

Christmas is much more fun when you're an atheist. I treat the whole of December as Christmas time and don't focus on just Christmas day itself. I also keep the indoor lights up until the hour changes.

we do that in Sweden anyway, liath, starting with the first of advent and working up from there

I often wish I was Swedish for all sorts of superficial reasons .

Dh and I are atheist and we celebrate Christmas for all we are worth.

Some people should remeber that the Christian church subsumed all most every cultural tradition that we had in England over the course of a millenium.

They did it to ensure that people would adhere to the church with as little fuss as possible at a time when pronouncements of non-belief were heretical.

Now we no longer persecute people for atheism or other beliefs, I fully intend to continue celebrating a winter festival of lights with trees, holly, mistletoe and other pre-Christian emblems.

Perhaps it is the Christians who should have a look at their celebration of Christmas and note how much of it is actually pre-Christian and they should drop all of the pagan bits. I suspect it would be a much less fun occassion!

It's not just a christian festival. This explains yule pretty well

Agree with everyone who points out it's not a christian festival. It's an age-old winter festival that had the birth of christ incorrectly attached to it, for purely convenient reasons, i.e. to get pagans to accept conversion to Christianity more easily.

So really, only Christians should celebrate the birth of Christ - at a time to suit them, perhaps when Christ was actually born? - just a suggestion - and they should not celebrate any of the original aspects of the winter festival as they are actually nothing to do with Christ. The tree, the lights, the feasting etc - predate Christ.

Same goes for easter - no eggs or rabbits for Christians, as they're all to do with the pre-existing pagan rites oh and also they can't call it "Easter" as that too is a pagan name.

Or, we could all just join in with each other's celebrations and stop worrying about it.

Message withdrawn

so when do you think christs real birth was then?

YABU.

I think it's great if people of all religions get involved - it's better than the PC brigade who think Christmas trees should be "winter trees", who ban nativity plays in case people of other religions are offended, etc etc.

Saw a great program a while ago about a Hindu family who really get involved with Christmas - the put a Christams tree up, give presents, whole family gets together, etc.

What's wrong with having a bit of good will and good cheer?

There's certainly lots of debate about when he was actually born.

PC Brigade.

I think we'll have to go for the latter, snowleopard, as we don't ermmm...actually...ermmm ^know when Christ was born.

Personally, I am a Christian but that isn't all I am. I am also a member of a non-Christian family. And a descendant of generations of northern Europeans with their own cultural luggage. And

Thanks for that link annemarie30, it's a really good explanation and I thought the author was happy that everyone is included in the celebrations.

Why do Christians persist in presenting them selves as miserable, joyless, mealy mouthed grumps? It's hardly going to encourage people to rush to join is it?

I'm only in it for the chocolate coins....