to be shocked, that the goverment do not pay towards chilcare costs for everyone?

[spottyoldzebra]

well they should stop going on about getting mothers back to work then.

I realise that contradicts what I said previously btw. It's so counter-intuitive I had actually forgotten it was the case until I checked it on entitledto.com .

KatieDD, I find it very offensive you telling lou031205 that she "picked the wrong guy if she wanted to stay at home"

how do you know anything about her "guy"?

would you like a poster to tell you that your choice of partner was wrong?

thats one of the cheekiest posts I've seen on here for a long time

Thank you ssd, I really appreciate that. My DH works his backside off for our family for a reasonable although not fantastic wage. I am 22 weeks pregnant, and despite my body taking a general dislike to pregnancy in general, which leaves me liable to every infection circulating, I have taken on a part-time evening job.

To help me manage this, my DH gets up with the children when they wake at about 5.30 each morning so that I can sleep in, and when he gets in from his working day, he baths the children and settles them for bed. He often does a lot of the clearing up to, because by then my body has given up. He is truly wonderful.

So to be told that because his earnings are lower than the average uk wage of £27000 pa (2008 figures) I have "chosen the wrong man" is a true insult.

Having said that, I am truly grateful to the systems that operate in the UK, because without them, we would be fairly stuffed!

Lou - I'm sorry I didn't stick up for you better as well. There have been some very mean-spirited comments made on this thread.

Thank you Twinklemegan, I think that specifics sometimes clarifies points, but leaves people open to direct attack!

Looking at this thread from a more objective angle, I think that there has been a general misconception about the purpose of tax credits, where in general people have seen them as credits against tax paid, rather than payments to supplement income.

For posters with generous incomes, it has come as a shock that for some families the tax credits exceed tax paid. But for the government who brought in this system, which is a re-distributive one, this was always the intention. The only alternative would be to raise the minimum wage to acceptable levels, but that would cost too much because everyone would have a decent wage. So instead they target people (mainly) with children and give added incentives for those that choose to work a significant number of hours.

Cleverly, the government have ensured that in general, if both parents are working, then they have to pay for the childcare costs themselves, because in most cases 2 incomes of minimum wage would take them over the income threshold for childcare, and it is capped beyond 1 child any way.

Perhaps the issue here is not so much one of the system, but the public's perception of that system, which has prooved inaccurate.

proved

I think your last post clarifies things quite well lou. And your DH sounds great and hugely supportive.

I think the only thing I would add to your post, and which some of my earlier posts touched on, is this issue of both parents working. Both parents can work whether they are together or split. There is no reason per se why splitting up means that one parent can't work. We both worked and paid full childcare costs when our kids were at nursery, and if we'd split, then we would still both have had our jobs - and our children would have carried on at nursery, funded by us both, as they are our children.
The thing that would have gone by the wayside would be our standard of living - because if we'd expected to run two homes, then they'd have had to be a damn sight smaller than the house we lived in!
But that's life - just as people who stay single and never have a partner have to fund their home singlehandedly.

I still think the thing that grates with a lot of people is the way some people want to make a special case of lone parents. It is utterly ridiculous, for example, that up until now, single mothers have been able to sit at home on benefits and not even look for work until their youngest child is 16.

The reality these days is that most parents do work. I think anything to help with childcare costs etc is great, and long over due, but this should apply to everyone.

Findtheriver - can you please clarify your position wrt SAHPs, in light of my post last night. I am still reading into your comments that you think DH and I are scroungers because he only works a few hours a week.

My post of 20:50:44 I mean.

Eh? I have no idea what you are on about twinklemegan. I haven't used the word 'scrounger' in a single post on this thread!!

lou031205 , your dh sounds a lot like mine, we live on less than £20k a yr, and thats with a wage rise.
I wouldn't swap him for anything, a fantastic dad, and a decent and honest man with a lot of humility.

we are the lucky ones

Sorry findtheriver - I've read back through the thread and I think I was confusing you with some others who did voice that view more or less explicitly. I guess I'm just quite sensitive about that part of this thread because I disagree with it so strongly. Ignore me.

ssd - well said - I wouldn't trade him for the world. Truly special.