To be put off that a NON-faith school's prospectus claims to want to 'lead children to a conception of a caring god'?

[solidgoldbrass]

I'm fine with the idea of DS learning about religions, I'm fine with him being tuaght to respect other people's right to believe in any old cock. I'm not fine with him being told that he has to believe it.
Are there any other free-from-religion parents out there who have pointed out to schools that the non-believing worldview a)exists and b) is deserving of respect too?

unusual, definitely.

Would count myself as having a faith, and send dc to a faith school... but would be surprised to read this in a prospectus for a non-faith school.

Hmmm... odd thing to put in a prospectus of non-faith school. Better than leading them to the concept of a vengeful, score-settling god...

They are'nt saying he has to believe it. They're saying they "want to lead children to a conception of a caring god", whatever that means.

Do they really have that actual sentence in their prospectus?

Totally out of order.

We did once send our headmaster a letter pointing out that the hymn 'Who put the colours in the rainbow', which includes the statistically inaccurate line '...it surely can't be chance' was inappropriate tacked onto the end of DDs class assembly, which was a nice factual presentation about the weather. I can't say we got much of a debate going, got a woolly fobbing off.

Yes they do! DS is 4 and we have been doing the rounds of local primaries before putting in our application: this school looks good in many ways but that one sentence has bothered me a bit.
I am aware that all schools have to peddle a certain amount of crap by law (must hold 'worship' assemblies - I don't approve of this either) but that being in the prospectus, grr, not pleased.

Here is the full farking text (on the page which deals with religious education)

A child should -
Experience, and be led to, an awareness of aspects of the natural world which excite awe and wonder, leading towards a conception of a caring God (their capital G).

From what I can tell, all school choices involve some compromise. I wouldn't let that one line - which is probably clumsy attempt to say they embrace all different faiths and cultures - bother you too much if the school looks good in other ways.

I think the thing is that a line like that suggests that they don't embrace 'all cultures' ie that they don't embrace or cater for a free-from-religion worldview.

I don't want to project or dump stuff on my DS, who I will love and support whatever he chooses to do with his life, but I think it's actually very important that a secular worldview is acknowledged everywhere and a 'faith-based' worldview is not given unquestioning priority.

i absolutely feel the same and am inwardly seething at the legal 'collective worship' part of every childs schooling in this country, but have no choice but to accept it (or home school).
I would however question the headteacher about that line in their prospectus. If that was the philosophy of the head teacher and she intended to carry it out, then find another school.

you know our children will probably become priests don't you?

oh I was going to ask about the 'g'.

Just bizarre. I got a shock when I dropped ds off for his first day at non-faith primary when I noticed a little pinned up sign of silliness on the wall - 'thank you God for my (oh I can't remember..) lunch/teachers/whatever'.

That said, I don't think he's done the Lord's Prayer (yet). I think schools vary as to how strongly they take on Worship - and plenty of non faith schools have that as the default position. I guess you have to weigh it all up.

FFS, I'm a Christian (who doesn't believe in faith schools) and that is the most ridiculous trumped up drivelly shitey sentence ever.

You should not send his there - not because of God (or not ) but because the sentence makes feck all sense

not send him there

You do not have to accept the 'collective worship'. You have the right to withdraw your child from it should you feel strongly enough so to home school isn't your only alternative.

yes, but if he's the only one ,or at least in a minority, withdrawn from collective worship it can't be good for him socially. and i understand that there is a lot of non-religious stuff involved in collective worship that is just part of the school being a community.
i just wish they would call it assembly and go easy on the hymns and prayers.

at the end of the day, i'm sure it will be his parents beliefs that will have more influence on him than that offered to him at school.
so i'm going to let it go.

Experience, and be led to, an awareness of aspects of the natural world which excite awe and wonder...

well its all right up to that point. You, me and Richard Dawkins would all agree with that. But what awe and wonder in the natural world have to do with any supposed supernatural being, caring or otherwise, I'd like to hear this head defend. That sentence preceding commitment to a strong science curriculum would be nearer the mark!

I think I am going to phone the school and gently query that sentence ie point out that we are a gods-free household and probably not the only one in the catchment area. And what they say will influence whether or not I apply to send him to that school.

It's offensive to Atheists, but also to Satanists and presumably Buddhists (they don't believe in a caring god do they?)
I guess it would bother the Japanese (who I 'think' see everything as having a spirit) Possibly Pagans (not sure about that)

I guess the headmaster has heard about including other cultures/beliefs and wants nothing to do with it

I hate this 'you can withdraw your child from collective worship' stuff. Yes, you can. But collective worship usually forms part of assembly, where all the other vital information passing goes on - so then your child misses out on loads of other stuff too. Not to mention his friends thinking he is a weirdo.

I'm another Christian and that sentence would bother me too. I don't want my children led in any direction of belief, thank you very much: I want them to decide where to go. Not me, not the headteacher.

Have no particular problem with stuff like Harvest Festival as that is cultural to a great extent; but this sentence sounds like stepping it up to a degree that I wouldn't feel comfortable with.

Solid - That is strange, is the Head a wannabe Priest!

Absolutely ask them about it and emphasise that the secular nature of the school is a big plus in your opinion and this line is very worrying in that context. I am only just beginning to realise the difficultly of finding a secular environment in the primary sector, of the 5 schools in our town, 1 catholic, 2 C of E, one too far away and a bit scary, and luckily one secular and very lovely (but small intake and we may not get in). I expect this has been done to death on mn but I really really object to 5 year olds being told by adults they trust, that the world is a certain way, based on no evidence but their irrational beliefs.
And funded by the state.
I am cusping on the edge a major rant here.
Deep breath, step away from crazy lady mode.

I expect it is allowed to continue because most parents dont get worked up about it. When subject came up in a group of mums the other week of the 8 of us, there was one catholic (whose child had refused to go to the catholic school)and the rest were agnostic or atheist, but none of them had been influenced by the religious content of the school when making choices.

LadyGlencoraPalliser. Never meant to offend you with my suggestion but I do feel it is a concrete viable option that you can do if you feel a strong objection to religious worship in schools. If enough parents feel the same way there would be no one left in assembly and the school and possibly the education authority would be forced to look at their collective worship policies.
Personally I would be more tempted to actually look at what that line in the prospectus actually meant in real terms by speaking to some of the other parents and teachers..Probably amounts to nothing more than carols at Christmas, a harvest festival and easter eggs.
Cathpot. All state schools whether they are faith schools or not have to have an act of collective worship on a weekly basis. It is a requirement monitered by Ofsted. There are no completely secular state schools as far as I know.

kiddiz, yes I realise this, but you can get more or less get away with assemblies that are not specifically religious but more about 'awe and wonder' etc. Many schools do this for a variety of reasons.

"a little pinned up sign of silliness" - beautiful.

I am already hoping (my daughter is 10 months old) tha I will be able to get her educated in the French education system, largely because the sort of religious indoctrination that is prevalent in this country's schools is illegal.

Also, is it me, or is there a trend away from the "cultural to a great extent" stuff like Harvest Festival, Easter egg painting and making Xmas cards (which I don't object to) to the teaching of a much more "sincere" and "committed" belief system (which I do, very strongly, object to?

I think you would be struggling to find a truely secualar state school or even a truely secular private school.

Rather than dismissing the school talk to the head and maybe ask if you can sit in on an assembly. You might be pleasently surprised.

The school where I work is a state school and their children sing Bob Marley songs and the Beatles. There are no prayers or anything.

By lalalonglegs on Thu 27-Nov-08 20:50:28

Better than leading them to the concept of a vengeful, score-settling god... grin

Well, a vengeful, score-settling god would at least be consistent with the world as we know it, whereas a caring god is not (unless its also a pathetically unable to do anything about the situation of children in the congo god)