to feel a bit patronised by the "Talk to your Child" campaign to get me to buy a rear facing buggy

[witchandchips]

Don't get me wrong, I have wasted many hours searching for such a thing that is affordable and non wanky + the premise of the campaign makes sense. But it is the judgy judgy judgy notes of the articles and the complete apparrent dismissal of issues like needing to get on the bus or having to wheel two under two into shops that get my goat, It seems just another stick for the daily mail to beat us by.

Personally, a forward facing buggy worked for me because it sometimes gave me the break I needed. If I was finding it all a bit too much then I'd put my DS in the pram and go for a walk - I would need that time to NOT be looking at him tbh. Also, I found when DS was a baby, he'd be MUCH more likely to whinge if he could SEE me!

After a break, I would be much more happy to spend some quality time with my baby.

Oh, and I've always lived in London and go everywhere on buses - and not ONCE have I ever fold the buggy - I just don't do it, I find it too much hassle. Never been a problem for me.

I had a rear facing big blue contraption with ds it was a......bebecar (couldnt remember the name). I loved it, being able to see him etc. But I can drive and although I did take the buggy on the bus occasionaly it was huge hassle.But I loved that buggy and didnt replace it with a lighter forward facing mamu until ds was over 1. With dd she has never been in a rear facing pram just in lightweight forward facing. I thought I might feel guilty but then again why would i? Its a buggy for crying out loud not a university choice! Think any research that says what some mothers do is WRONG and DANGEROUS is bad research

I had a rear facing big blue contraption with ds it was a......bebecar (couldnt remember the name). I loved it, being able to see him etc. But I can drive and although I did take the buggy on the bus occasionaly it was huge hassle.But I loved that buggy and didnt replace it with a lighter forward facing mamu until ds was over 1. With dd she has never been in a rear facing pram just in lightweight forward facing. I thought I might feel guilty but then again why would i? Its a buggy for crying out loud not a university choice! Think any research that says what some mothers do is WRONG and DANGEROUS is bad research

I hadnt finished!!!!!!! evil double clicking mouse!

Horton, thanks for posting the link to that article on the NHS website which analysed the study.

In summary, the study is flimsy, results dubiously interpreted to amount to scaremongering almost and at best only highlights an area that would benefit from further research.

Issues:

There were problems getting an accurate reading of the heart rate of the babies due to the excessive movement of the buggy.

Heart rate on its own is not a good measure of stress - an elevated heart rate could be due to excitement or enjoyment from forward facing infants seeing more things.

In any case (and this is damning) there was no statistically significant difference in heart rates between the forward and backward facing groups, so the focus on this as a measure of infant stress is almost a moot point.

The researcher has chosen to focus on the heart rate but ignored crying as a measure of stress! The study in fact showed that more of the babies who faced their parents cried than those who were looking away (though not statistically significant either). Barmy.

I wouldn't rush out to buy a backward facing buggy just yet.

I can see that if everyone had backward-facing buggies then people would realise that their 4-year old really should be getting off their arse and walking now...

yes WW73 i had a thought this morning about how they would make rear facing double buggies.

Whethergirl I'd love to know what bus routes you go on. I have had to do it four or five times in 11 months- admittedly not masses, but things do seem more important with a crying baby in tow.

What a load of rubbish - I had a pram that could face forward and back for ds, because I wanted to be able to see him and talk to him when he was little. As soon as he got to about 6 months he spent most of his time hanging over the back of it trying to see where he was going.

He is now in a forward facing buggy, and it means he can see the view but we can still talk to each other. He talks to me constantly about everything we see, and he can still hear me even if he isn't looking right at me. Also, he gets so much attention and conversation during the day that it wouldn't hurt him not to be talked to for half an hour.

Ds is now 20mths so won't need a buggy for much longer - he already walks to the town every day as it is. It would be a ridiculous expense to get a rear facing buggy for the short period of time he'd need it. Slings are a great and much cheaper option if you want to be able to see your baby.

Marge totally agree, that annoys me!

slightly off topic but in response to domesticslattern - yes i use the bee on buses and can fold down fast and take up (unaided) a flight of steps. It's quite light and compact but for anywhere off-road I find a sling much better

This is a classic example of a quite interesting little study which has been completely blown up into something that has big implications. Which it doesn't.

The only outcome this study should lead to is possibly more research. The study did not find that babies were stressed, as there was no significant difference between the two groups. The only difference found was that for these 20 women they talked more to their babies when they faced them. That is a tiny number to observe. The same factor was found in the larger observational study, but as rear facing buggies are relatively unusual it is quite possible that these parents were unusual in some way, and there were no adjustments except possibly on estimated age.

So those of you feeling anxious stop it, and those of you who feel aggrieved at having this shoved down your throats and being told you are terribly bad, yes you are right to feel irritated.

I also see that the results for children who were walking or being carried have not been reported. I would find those interesting too.

Have just skim-read the thread. The report sounds very patronising and if I'd heard it I would have been hopping mad too. Incidentally, hear hear Badgerqueen - I think you hit several nails on the head there!

I just think it's another way of raising the profile of the importance of talking to young children.

Patronising to some, but not everyone.

Unfortunately, not everyone does talk to their children...if this media hits the mainstream press, perhaps the mum listening to her ipod pushing a buggy walking through town might think perhaps the odd chat with her child might be worthwhile.

yes but you know what? my children are in a double buggy front facing sitting behind each other when they are in it. I talk to them pretty much constantly when they are awake and there might be the very odd occasion when i have dropped ds1 at nursery and ds2 is snug in the back asleep when i have a conversation on my mobile or put my ipod on. this report will now give others a fantastic new reason to judge people pushing buggies on every occasion, whether they know the peron or not.

It just narks me that it's yet another way for people to feel justified in poking their noses in.

and to be honest if you're not going to talk to your child in a buggy it doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether they are front facing or not, you still won't do it.

sorry rant ended. for good this time

You can get rear-facing double buggies, but they're really expensive.

Perhaps when they're designing this new lightweight affordable rear-facing buggy, they could also do a double model...

Flick, I don't think the buggy thing is all that important...and am not meaning to make a sweeping judgement, but so many kids cannot speak/communicate well, perhaps someone needs to wake those parents up and tell them that it makes their kids life harder...by not talking to them.

blackrock i agree with that but tagging it along with a limited bit of research about rear or forward facing buggies is just going to turn a lot of people off it imo.

why not be actively encouraging reading with your children, along with the bookstart scheme and libraries, or singing with your children? it's all communication and it would put a lot less backs up than something such as "putting your child in a forward facing buggy will lead to them being stressed and an anxious adult".

I and a lot of others on this thread are in agreement that talking to your child is one of the most important things you can do, but it's the patronising manner in which we are being told / reminded of it that i think is the issue here.

The only buggies I ever think about (and that's to the buggy makers, not the parent, I hasten to add) are the "double-decker" ones where one seat is slung below the other one. The baby in the bottom then appears only to be able to see the bottom of the other seat. That seems a poor deal to me. However I only used my double buggy for a few months, and maybe that's the norm, in which case it's probably no big deal.

nooka we have a double decker one . ds1 likes to walk everywhere now so it was really only used as a proper double decker when ds2 was in the flat out position. and when he is in the underneath seat he looks out the side.

ds1 likes to try and sit in the underneath seat most of the time though....

I can imagine that! Looking out the side must be a bit crap though? I imagine rather like sitting in the back seat of a car. Alright, but nothing compared to the view from the front seat.

yes you'd think so nooka but ds2 really seems to like it in there...he's only 8 months so if i am going out with both of them and ds1 isn't walking i do try to time it for when ds2 will be wanting to nap, knowing that the view isn't quite as good!