to expect 7 yr old DSs to go to sleep when I put them to bed?

[FattyBomBom]

Twin boys - spent the 1st 3 years of their lives with sleep deprivation and now happening again!

I pick them up from after school club at 5.30pm (work fulltime) and then rush round like a blue arsed fly (not enough time for cup o tea)to get them in bed for 7.30pm (cook dinner, do reading/homework, bath, story (or 2) then bed) and they will not bloody well go to sleep (one still awake now ). Am sick to the back teeth of it and it resulted in smacked bums tonight at about 9.30 then terrible guilt that they are ending their day with mum shouting at them (loud enough for whole neighbourhood to hear, thank god we are detached).

Then during the night, coming into our bed at least 2 or 3 times (nightmares, want a drink, foot hurts etc).

DH works until very late so am on me tod but even on the nights he's here, they do the same. Jumping around on the beds (almost coming through the ceiling), fighting, playing with toys that they ignore until bedtime etc, etc!! They have to share a room but am putting one in our bed until we go but they are still running around.

One is badly behaved at school and is much worse when tired, the other one has dark rings under eyes. It's not that they don't need the sleep as we need a rocket to get them up and then have AM tantrums. I stress myself out trying to make sure they get their 10 hours but have had enough . This has been going on for about 6 months now (no triggers we can think of) and they get plenty of exercise as well. Don't know wtf is going on!!! Need the esteemed advice of Mners!

That sounds horrible for you. I am on my own most nights so I feel your pain.
What about a star chart? the reward could a nice treat at the weekend.
What about moving their bedtime to 8 o'clock and spending half an hour more quality time with them. I only say that because of the middle of the night 'attention seeking' - maybe they just want to spend more time with you?
I am assuming they are not having sugar or fizzy drinks in the evening that are giving them an energy rush? Maybe as you are so rushed they pick up on those vibes and are not 'relaxed' at bedtime IYSWIM.
Hope someone else along to advise soon.

you say you want them to have 10 hours sleep and their bedtime is 7:30, so they get up at 5:30am??
My children have never been in bed at 7:30...ever. They have 9:30 bedtime now (DS is 9, DD is 11 , so a bit older than yours), and get up at between 7 and 7:30 in the morning. They sometimes don't go to sleep immediately either.
Tell your boys that bedtime will be 9pm. I know that you want time in the evening to relax, we all do. But you sound soooo stressed out by this, and it will be influencing their behaviour. Put bedtime back an hour or two, and stop the blue-arsed fly routine. Take it a bit more slowly, have that cup of tea, and your boys may well relax and chill out a bit more so that they will be more inclined to sleep at night. Good luck.

Can you possibly do all that in less than 2 hours? It sounds like a horribly stressful evening!

I would try a later bed time, and maybe not bother with a bath every night. If they are at school then after school club, they might need some "down time" before they can go to sleep - time to play, watch Top Gear, sort the Match Attack cards, build a lego space ship, taunt the cat, draw a picture of Stephen Gerrard and play a game of Go Fish...(these are the things my 7 year old did last night between getting home from school at 4.30 and going to bed at 8.45. He went to sleep in 5 minutes because her was completly shattered!

have a grown up discussion with them about bed time. Tell them it's not working. Ask them for their suggestions for improvement. Get them on board.

Some ideas:-
later bed time
agree a time for going to bed plus extra reading time in bed. agree a 'lights out time'
Put dinner in slow cooker in morning, so only have to boil up pasta or rice.
Don't put them in your bed - sets the precedent for them coming in during night.
Ban them coming in at night (only dire emergency)
It is a fact that putting them to bed too early is counter productive - it causes them a great deal of stress, and makes in harder for them to get to sleep.
Set in place a reward scheme for going to bed well/ fine (pocket money deduction?) for nights they don't do well.
have a family evening activity before bed

We have problems with ds1's sleeping, he is seven in January. We now let him read in bed, and even though he still doesn't always sleep at what I would call a reasonable time, at least he is in his room and in bed. However he does keep asking for milk/fruit etc so now we just try not to stress about it.

totally, totally agree that the whole shebang sounds mega stressed. No womder they are playing up.

I do sympathise with your worries, my ds is not an early sleeper and as a mum you do of course get concerned that they have the maximum hours of sleep not only for their mood in the morning, but their general development.

However one big thing I've had to accept is that you can't make a child sleep.

Agree with trying a slightly later bedtime to make it easier for you to relax with the bedtime routine; enjoy them a bit more. And agree with deciding on a 'lights out' time and then after that, they can lay and read by a nightlight or something, so long as it's quiet and bedtime-y.

Do all this in a really positive way with them and they'll respond I'm sure. Obv if they were to play up you've got some scope to say "oh dear I hope you don't have to go back to an earlier bedtime" etc etc