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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be horrified by NHS.

37 replies

StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 03/11/2008 19:47

I know how understaffed they are and I don't blame anyone in a&e (I work at same hospital), but am astounded by my dad's treatment tonight.

He's in his 60s, has been unable to keep any fluids or solids down for 3 days. So I took him to see his GP. He now also complaining f major pressure in his head and his blood vessels in his eyes are burst. Breathing now fast and in pain.

So GP says e needs admitting and rings hospital - no beds available so he's to go to a&e. GP says if I'm happy to take him it will be quicker than an ambulance. So I do.

I take the GP letetr to receptionist and explain he's to be admitted but there's no beds. She tells us to take a seat and wait to be triaged. I query this and say he doesn't need to see a nurse, has already seen GP, he needs a drip, anti emetics and other treatment. Am told everyone sees a nurse. Its 30 minutes before he's seen by a nurse! He's barely concious by now - a fact I've pointed out to the receptionist half way through our wait.

Nurse sends him straight into the main part of a&e. This was at 5:00pm. Not only are there no beds in the main hospital but there are no trolleys in a&e. Ill people are lined up on trolleys down the corridor on oxygen, drips, etc.

Dad is put on a plastic "school type" chair in the middle of a&e and has blood taken.

I then had to leave to get dd, so left him there with his girlfriend. Have texted his gf and she says he still on chair, still not been seen by Dr!!!

I know for a fact tehre are empty beds in that hospital, the maternity ward where I work has 20 empty beds. Obviously they can't admit him to mat wing - but they have in the past taken our empty beds over to the general side. Am so mad thet a sick OAP is having to sit on a chair for hours on a&e.

OP posts:
Littlefish · 03/11/2008 19:50

It does sound awful.

Presumably when they say they have "no beds", it means that they don't have the staff available to work in those wards.

Is it worth picking him up and taking him to another hospital, or phoning the out of hours GP and explaining the problem?

cheshirekitty · 03/11/2008 19:58

Is the hospital on Red Alert? Why did the GP advise you to take your father to this hospital if there are no beds?

Yes, maternity may have 20 empty beds, but where would they put them to take general patients? Also, they would not have the staff to look after your father.

I know from experience what it is like to sit and wait for a trolley when you are in pain. Sadly, with all the cutbacks in the NHS, this will become far more common.

Original poster
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 03/11/2008 20:00

Probably does mean no staff, but in that case I think they should be getting staff in on bank or shutting to admissions - not letting people in but not been able to treat them effectively. But of course they get a huge fine if they shut, so they will never put patients first.

Have texted the gf and offerred to come and get them and take them to another hospital but my dad's said no.

OP posts:
cheshirekitty · 03/11/2008 20:05

If that hospital is like the one I work for, they have capped bank nurses wages, so when I work on the bank I get a lower hourly rate then when I work my contracted hours.

So I chose not to work on the bank, as do many other nurses. Hence, there is always a shortage of nurses available to look after sick people.

Yes, they get a fine if they close the hospital to admissions. Hospitals these days are run by accountants with hearts of ice who care very little for vulnerable ill people.

macdoodle · 03/11/2008 20:06

no beds = no staff not the actual physical beds - they have to have the staff to nurse the patients in the beds

DustyTvHasSizzlingSparklerssss · 03/11/2008 20:12

Stripey, that sounds awful, I do think you should still pick your dad and his GF up and take him to a hospital if he is well enough to be moved, despite your dad saying no.

He obviously needs some urgent care.

I really hope he gets seen to soon and is feeling better soon.

DustyTvHasSizzlingSparklerssss · 03/11/2008 20:13

To an other hospital, obviously

littleducks · 03/11/2008 20:34

i dont think they could put general patients on maternity, isnt it staffed by midwives rather than nurses?

however when i worked in nhs, wards like gynae would take general medical/surgical patients (obv only female) who would be 'outlyers' until a bed in a more apropriate ward would become available (it often ended up in a dominoe effect of beds, man A moves to man b bed so man b can have woman c's bed...)

it doesnt sound good for your dad, ime it is older people who get treated the worst as they are less likely to make a fuss

ScottishMummy · 03/11/2008 20:38

1stly sorry about your dad.what a worry.no beds means not enough staff to cover the beds.but that is absolutely no comfort to you

has dad been seen by triage?

you could ask staff to complete the IR1 incident book clinical incident as Hazard eg not enough trolleys. this had peotential to nharm, and is shotrage of appropriate equipment

hope this resolves ok, and your dad makes good recovery

pramspotter · 03/11/2008 20:39

We don't even have the staff to nurse the patients we already have let alone take more into empty wards. We are already forced to take more than we can hanlde. But these damn hospitals are turning new graduate nurses fresh out of uni away. No jobs..they tell them.....and they have stopped agency and pool nursing at my hospital.

Believe me OP...I have worked as a staff nurse for the NHS are your dad's treatment is only the tip of the iceberg.

Original poster
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 03/11/2008 21:03

Asking about an IR1 being filled in is a good idea. I do want to make a complaint, not against teh staff there today. But I do think that the more people complain, possibly the more managers will listen?

I know that there are empty, unstaffed wards at that hospital that have been closed to save money. I'm sure that NQ nurses are struggling to get work.

As a NQ m/w I struggled to get a job on a very under staffed mat dept as there was no money left to employ staff.

It all comes down to budgets at the end of the day and it makes me so cross.

OP posts:
ScottishMummy · 03/11/2008 21:10

IR1 has to go to clinical governance and director so gets read.dont know what else to say.trust pursuing foundation status means money becomes an imperative sometimes more do than clinical care

Original poster
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 03/11/2008 21:31

Funnily enough they are currently persuing foundation status. I know Unison are sending petitions against it round to all the wards and I signed one the other week.

OP posts:
stitch · 03/11/2008 21:33

if this was my dad, i would get him home, in a bed. and then get the gp to sort out the bed.

ScottishMummy · 03/11/2008 21:38

gp cant compel hospital to admit

pramspotter · 03/11/2008 21:43

My hospital is trying to persue foundation status. It's been hell.

ScottishMummy · 03/11/2008 21:46

foundation trust=targets,financial prudence,targets,star ratings oh and some patient care

SalBySea · 03/11/2008 21:49

patients always get triaged in my local a&e cause if a doc saw them first they'd just go away and get a nurse to do obs and bloods and cannulate (which is basically what triaging in majors involves) so it would be a waste of time to see a doc first

If as you say your dad needed fluids then that's not gonna happen without a cannula and in most a&es its the nurses and HCAs that do so as part of the triage/admission process.

The results of the triage score also helps the docs prioritise who to see first

hope that clears it up for you

SalBySea · 03/11/2008 21:51

also - politicians who've never worked in health care want all mixed-sex wards to be abolished. In theory its a good idea but if your a&e units are backed up with mostly males and you have space in female bays the bed manager's hands are often tied from above

SalBySea · 03/11/2008 21:57

and (wish I knew how to edit posts instead of adding new ones)
as I'm sure you're aware there are lots of very legitimate reasons to refuse admissions. In the long run he's better off on a chair in a&e than being put into a closed bay with a vomiting and diarrhoea outbreak

ScottishMummy · 03/11/2008 22:02

no one wants norovirus.SKSS how is dad?was he admitted.what is treatment plan

Original poster
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 03/11/2008 22:03

Well good news of a kind. After 6 hours in a&e, he still has not been seen by a doctor or had any treatment apart from bloods taken. Not cannulated or given fluids yet even though he hasn't had any fluids for 3 days. But he has now been admitted to a ward, so I guess they've found a bed for him.

OP posts:
Original poster
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 03/11/2008 22:04

No treatment plan yet. They now waiting for a medical SHO to see him. Apparantl ythey didn't need to see him in a&e as he'd already been seen by GP. No idea why they didn't start any treatment though.

OP posts:
ScottishMummy · 03/11/2008 22:09

well he will be assessed,his obs monitored.try get some sleep you have all had a hard time

SalBySea · 03/11/2008 22:09

hope he gets sorted soon, kinda makes you understand why some elderly people (like my nan in law) start refusing to go to hospital when they're ill

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