to feel disgusted if not particularly surprised , that so many faith schools fiddle their admissions criteria?

[LittleWhizzingBella]

OK we all know it goes on.

But the fact that these people are pretending to be beacons of moral, upstanding, ethical education while ensuring that disadvantaged children are kept outside, makes me feel bloody sick. Have these vile people really not moved on since the heyday of Victorian hypocrisy? How can they be so utterly vile while pretending to be christians?
about Pharisees... story here

I don't know why I'm so pissed off about it, I thought I was cynical and shocked by nothing. But there's something so horrible about them keeping children out of their precious schools because they're not the right type of children.

This isn't the only study to show a bias in admissions to religious schools. There have been several. It seems to be true of many religious schools that their pupils do not reflect the make up of the local community.

Bella's right, it's appalling that schools which claim to have some sort of moral justification are actually just discriminating on grounds of class and wealth. If they want to do that, they can go private and give the rest of us our money back to spend on a decent education for EVERY child, not just the favoured few.

and dare I also suggest that by default many faith schools, particularly village ones, will be by default in more "privileged" areas........I don't see many "cheap" houses to rent or buy in villages round our way.........

Oh blimey, not this again...

Glad you amended your statement though Hedgewitch. Speaking as a non divorced, church attending, fecking tea and coffee after Mass making, chatterer with nuns who wants DD to legitimately go to the Catholic school. Everyone else, bugger orf!

No-one wants the underclass in their school because they lower standards and cause terrible disruption during lesson time.

People who complain that faith schools won't let them in don't want them in the same schools as their children either.

Yes some schools are excluding certain children and I think we all know what type of children ALL schools would avoid if they could.

YANBU

I heard this on Radio 4 this morning and my firth thought was "I bet there will be a Mumsnet trhread about this "
[saddo]

My son can't go to out nearest school because we are all godless heathens and we don;t lick the local Priest's botty and pretend that we are regular churchgoers. We are also not in a position to give the headmaster a "here-we-go-sunshine-no-questions-asked" backhander either.

so because potentially 10% of faith schools (assuming that the 750 or so that do breach the rules are indeed all faith schools, and not any of the other types of selective school) do it they're all immoral buggers are they??

it will be interesting once the full report is published next month to see how many LEA's had their fingers rapped for not doing things properly too........

Watching with interest. Would like to see faith schools abolish their 'faith criteria' - after all - if they are state funded surely they should take all comers and be glad of the opportunity to show the light to heathens There is a highly regarded school near us, in a VERY priveliged neighbourhood, which gives priority to thos baptised in a specific church, and then other local churches, before even STARTING on othe criteria. So needless to say the pupils come from very affluent families ( or at least those who can afford the £1m+ houses in the locality - not kidding - you would not get one under £700k, and obviously no social housing..) and who are also savvy enough to get them baptised in the right place and do all the flowers every weeks etc.

Fair enough Harpsichord, I meant that it wasn't just religious schools.

if you had been to a religious school you'd have had a proper education and wouldn't have misinterpreted the article.

joke.

not funny but couldn't help it.

At me Amidaiwish? I was taught by nuns as a child!

interesting that this article says that "1/2" of all state schools contravened the rules

Also

"Half of authorities contravened the rules brought in last year to prevent selection by the back door."

I went to a convent actually

Personally I think it's very hypocritical for people to shun certain schools in their area because "the wrong sort" attend them and then have the gall to complain about faith schools admissions procedures.

That's ok though because there is no obligation on state schools to be "moral"

No, the faith schools have to be moral and let people in when they demand, but the same people want to avoid the people in their local state schools. Great. Pick and Mix Morality.

Why do some people assume that parents who go to church are only doing it to get their dc into the school?

There is always the possibilty that they chose a Catholic School because of attending church rather then choosing the church to attend the school.

What are you on about?
Who is shunning local schools?

Or has this thread moved beyond my understanding?

Because a friend of a friend of a friend knows someone who is just "pretending" to be religious. Therefore, every single one of the 3 million parents whose kids attend faith school must just all be pretending to be religious.

Personally, I just can't wait for my kids to get into the catholic high school coz I can stop going to church and keeping up the pretence and go shopping and car boot sales instead.

LWB there has been more than a few statements on MN from people who turn their noses up at their local school because shock horror CHILDREN FROM THE COUNCIL ESTATE GO THERE, who then complain the faith school won't let them in. Can you not see the double standards prevailing here?

No I don't.

I think the 2 are separate issues.

I think it's snobby to not want to go to the local school because local people go there, but I don't see why that's a good excuse for faith schools to exclude children whose parents don't go to church.

See faith schools don't exclude anyone, they give certain people priority. That's not the same as exclusion. And this is their get out clause and the reason why they will never be closed down.

I know a lot of people state that they would like to see them shut down on the basis that they pay for them but can't attend them. Well so what, I pay for the upkeep of Buckingham Palace but I'm not allowed to live their. Taxpayers pay for many many things they are excluded from but education isn't one of them.

All those people shouting for the closure of faith schools are fighting a loosing battle. It simply isn't gonna happen so they are going to have to look at other options, assuming of course they can't afford to go private.

The most obvious option is to somehow raise the standards in their local state school and we all need to be looking at ways to achieve this

Or, if they don't like their local schools and they can't attend their faith schools they could do what the faith schools did 200 years ago and open their own schools.

Well, talking of Buckingham Palace...

Oops, wrong thread

Buckingham Palace is not an accurate analogy. We are talking about universal public services here. Better comparison would be with hospitals - it would clearly be ridiculous if Barnsley General started turning away anyone who couldn't provide a letter from the Vicar stating what a good Christian they were, or University College Hospital gave preference to Catholics.

So why is it OK in education?

And 'giving priority' does equal excluding anyone who doesn't meet those criteria in practice. My nearest school (CofE) told me quite frankly that they never get down to no. 4 on their list - local children.

In fact, they fiddle the priorities anyway - legally schools have to give first or second priority to looked after children/those with a clear educational or social need to attend the school (forget the phrasing but you know what I mean). Oddly enough many religious schools have fewer looked after children/children who meet the need criteria than community schools.