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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be pissed off with some of the parents at nursery who have complained about todays halloween theme?

55 replies

mumoverseas · 29/10/2008 07:56

the nursery organised for this morning a craft morning that mums could stay to with the kids making spiders and ghosts etc. Kids were also asked to wear black and bring something black in for 'show and tell'. Its a different colour every week but black today for halloween (last day of nursery til saturday)
Well lots of us mums turned up and joined in the fun/chaos but quite a few didn't come and kept their kids off complaining it shouldn't be allowed as its religious! (we are in middle east!) but its a BRITISH COMPOUND AND A BRITISH NURSERY! We have ramadam rammed down our throats and have to comply with that, we let the kids celebrate eid, divali, hanaka and numerous other religious days out of respect for the other religions and cultures here but then we get criticised for a halloween theme! Am I being unreasonable?????? Time to go home I think!

OP posts:
theSuburbanDryad · 29/10/2008 08:36

Ummm...

Actually, All Soul's Day is a Catholic festival. Best link I could find, sorry

theSuburbanDryad · 29/10/2008 08:38

But yes - the roots of it are in Samhain, which was a Celtic/Pagan festival. Most religious festivals have their roots in the traditional British festivals - Easter was originally Beltane, Christmas was originally the Winter Solstice...and so on and so forth.

tissy · 29/10/2008 08:39

...suppose it depends how you define a festival. As far as I'm aware, wearing black, making spiders and ghosts are nothing at all to do with remembering (and praying for) the departed loved ones.

theSuburbanDryad · 29/10/2008 08:43

no - i totally agree with you there Tissy, and Samhain/All Hallow's Eve/Hallowe'en has become extremely commercialised and sponsored by Clintons - just like most "religious" festivals.

I mean - Father Christmas has eff all to do with the Virgin Birth, but most people seem ok with it!

Libra1975 · 29/10/2008 08:46

depends if their loved ones were arachnologists or not....

Original poster
mumoverseas · 29/10/2008 08:51

so is it or isn't it religious? Gosh the subrunbandryad, you are very well read!
and in answer to an earlier question, technically we are in our home as the nursery is on the compound where we all live!
Off to decorate my house for the naughty trick or treaters tonight! No doubt that will offend! I just think its a bit sad that we don't live in a world where everyone can just respect other peoples varying beliefs. Sad, particularly when you think most, if not all, wars are down to religion! Would do a sad face with halloween hat on but don't want to offend!

OP posts:
needmorecoffee · 29/10/2008 08:53

actually, most wars are not down to religion (think nazi's) but there should be a little more tolerance. I'm religious but have no problem with what other people do and if its fun may even join in. Some relisiog poeple get so uptight

StewieGriffinsMom · 29/10/2008 08:58

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TheHedgeWitch · 29/10/2008 09:01

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theSuburbanDryad · 29/10/2008 09:03

mumoverseas - Hallowe'en has its roots in Samhain, which was then taken over by All Soul's/Saint's day by the Christians who came to convert Britain.

So it's roots are religious, but like most religious festivals it has been taken over by Clinton/Hallmark!

I agree with you - I think it would be nice if everyone could just tolerate everyone's else's religion. But that would go against one of the main tenets of religion - which is that you're right and everyone else is wrong!

Vinegar · 29/10/2008 09:03

Mumoverseas - I am surprised that you said that Diwali(which is a Hindu festival) is celebrated. Many places in the middle east(Kuwait for example) will allow worship in a makeshift church, but no way will they tolerate a Hindu temple. Hinduism is tolerated even less than Christianity, so it's nothing personal against the British like you seem to imply.

needmorecoffee · 29/10/2008 09:03

yeah, but germany invading other countries - twice - was not a religious war. More ideological. Individual nazi's were religious and the symbols etc etc had religious dressing but it was a secular war.
I'm trying to think the last religious war (excluding terrorism) but its all down to politics and land grabbing and colonialism with occasionally religion thrown in.
I think all religions should be taught in school and fetivals discussed - obviously you wouldn't want to actually celebrate all of them - Santeria and Voodoo might be a tad messy - as understanding only comes through education.

theSuburbanDryad · 29/10/2008 09:04

THW said it much better than me!

What are you doing to celebrate Samhain THW? We're thinking of going down to Avebury or possibly Stonehenge as a friend of dh's is camping out there at the moment.

needmorecoffee · 29/10/2008 09:08

I used to do warden duty at a neolithic stone cicle and spent Samhain fending off various poeple wanting to clamber over the stones and leave litter everywhere and what have you.
This Samhain I am putting a big sign on the door that says 'Don't even think of knocking'

theSuburbanDryad · 29/10/2008 09:09

nmc - that's shit. We stopped going to Stonehenge for the Summer Solstice because it was taken over by the Brew Crew (IYKWIM) and had just become another date on the festival calendar.

Makes me so .

frasersmummy · 29/10/2008 09:09

halloween is actually a combination of 2 ancient celtic festivals..

many years ago 1 nov was all hallows day.. the day when souls were released from pugatory for 24 hours.

31 october was the end of the celtic year, they celebrated the end of the year and gave thanks for the fruitful harvest etc..

over the years the 2 got combined so the 31st became of all hallows eve .. the day before the souls were released..

so there is some sort of religious link

I think everyone has a right to decide if they want to partake in any religious festival.. but protesting or even complainig loudly about people celebrating is plain wrong. If you dontwant your child to join in then write a letter or speak quietly to the person in charge and explain I know muslim countries are not as tolerant as us...

but .. political correctness cuts both ways

dons hard hat!!!

needmorecoffee · 29/10/2008 09:17

I thought Arthur Pendragon and his heavy lot were patrolling Stonehemge at Soltistice. He certainly was last time I bumped into him (which admittedly was 6 years ago!)

onebatmotherofNormanBates · 29/10/2008 09:17

I don't think it's because it's religious - devout Muslims don't celebrate birthdays either. It's about not paying undue attention to anyone other than Allah, iyswim. I think.

So they're not criticising HW bcs it's Christian, but because it;s a festival. I'm surprised that they don't have a prob with Diwali etc though.

theSuburbanDryad · 29/10/2008 09:21

nmc - Arthur's not been at Stonehenge for the Solstice for the last couple of ones we went to (last one was 2006, i think) but he's there now, protesting about the road building plans.

Here's the press release.

TheHedgeWitch · 29/10/2008 09:24

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GypsyMoth · 29/10/2008 09:25

and here's me thinking that all this halloween "overkill" comes from america!!!!

pingping · 29/10/2008 09:27

YANBU!
I agree with Frasersmummy.

Also Nazi war was not based on religion and Hitler didn't kill the Jews because of there beliefs more to do with them not being the perfect race.

Rans as fast as I can from this thread

MadamePlatypus · 29/10/2008 09:29

Well it is religious. I know its only 'kind of' religious - it's really more traditional than religious, but I can understand how somebody might see it as religious. Presumably you don't HAVE to let your children take part in Eid etc. If the families that did want to take part took part and had fun is there really a problem?

If I was trying to get people to respect Western values and customs, I don't think I would necessarily start with Halloween. In fact I might keep quiet about Halloween. Its maybe one of those "You had to be there at the time" celebrations. Maybe they could call it 'Mexican day of the dead' next year, or just celebrate the day itself rather than the eve of the day and celebrate "all souls" day and bring in photos of ancestors.

Waspie · 29/10/2008 09:30

My son attends nursery in a multi-cultural and multi-ethnic area and I have no problem with the nursery having themes based around Diwali/Eid/Ramadam/Christmas/Halloween or any anything else. But I would have a problem, as I'm a committed atheist, if these themes extended into indoctrination.

If my son wants to embrace a religion he can do so when he's old enough to learn about them, and what they represent, and choose for himself.

Personally I find learning about different religions and their festivals and roots fascinating and surely learning more about other cultures can only assist greater acceptance and integration.

Sorry, I realise this has wandered way off the OP. As for the OP, I don't see how the nursery can celebrate muslim and jewish festivals but not christian ones. either they do all or they do none at all (IMO).

Ripeberry · 29/10/2008 09:31

Come back to Britain then. Muslim countries are getting very intollerant of other religions whilst other countries have to be MORE tollerant of muslims.
Says it all really.