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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that it is not socially/environmentally irresponsible to want a large family?

199 replies

stillstanding · 28/10/2008 10:51

I am one of four children. My parents were both one of four and most of aunts and uncles had large families too. I therefore grew in up in a fairly rumbustious home with loads of people coming and going and I loved it and I always hoped that I too would have a large family.

DH and I are now discussing how many children we would like to have and it turns out we are not exactly on the same page as he would prefer that we only had two DCs.

His main argument is that it is socially and environmentally irresponsible to have more than two children. He feels that the planet is overburdened as it is and there is no need to overload it any further. He's comfortable with two DCs because it's "two in two out" but that any more would be selfish of us.

I suspect that his main drivers are his own background (he comes from a rather calm family of 2 DCs where no one talks over you at the dinner table) and the financial toll. He is probably targeting the whole social/environmental irresponsibility angle because the environment is something I have become increasingly concerned about in recent years. He says that there is no point in me being militant about recycling, for example, and then having four children.

Ultimately I suspect that the financial aspect is going to be the deciding factor in this decision but I wondered if any of you had considered this issue?

OP posts:
sorkycake · 29/10/2008 09:06

I'll have you know that both Dh and I are extremely well-educated and are having 4 children, thank you very much.

sorkycake · 29/10/2008 09:09

It's a combination of many factors really. Better healthcare, living longer, less mortality in childbirth/childhood.

People are living nowadays who would have been unlikely to have survived into early adulthood in previous generations.

PsychoAxeMurdererMum · 29/10/2008 09:16

oh yes, it is very bad enviromental practice to have children, any children.

I mean, the eruptions in my house alone at the mess cause considerable damage to the ozone layer.....and as for the hot air coming out my mouth on ranty days......well, I think I have burnt my own little hole of my own up there!!!!

of course, no one thinks for one moment that one of us mums here could have given birth to the next einstien or marie curie (sp?), or someone equally is brilliant, so they could in fact cure the planet of all the issues made by carbon footprints etc do they, or that the more children we might have to teach about the enviroment, the more likely it is that we will make a difference in our own lifetimes.......

sorkycake · 29/10/2008 09:29

coo-ee to psychomum

onager · 29/10/2008 09:37

Psychomum. Nice image. I may have made a few holes in that ozone too

You have a point about not knowing how that extra child will contribute. If my mum had stopped at 4 then I wouldn't be here to tell you that the total and permanent cure for all enviromental issues IS to have less people.

Even if our children came up with a wonderful invention that meant everyone made only a tiny bit of pollution it wouldn't help. We'd get more and more people until the pollution was as bad as ever.

solidgoldskullonastick · 29/10/2008 09:38

Actually, there is a better ethical case to be made for concieving fewer children when there are so many unwanted ones in the world: why not adopt a few of them? Oh, but I forgot, mundanes are silly about genetics...

PsychoAxeMurdererMum · 29/10/2008 09:42

I think it is up to the individual on how many children you have. altho you do need to talk to your partner first, tis always best to go into this parenting lark with full agreement on both sides.

DH and I agreed fully on 3 children.........still have no idea how those extra two snuck in.

stillstanding · 29/10/2008 10:04

Onthewarpath, over-population is certainly affected by people living much longer now but I would suggest (uncontroversially I hope) that we can't control outgoings but can (individually) control incomings.

Sorkycake, have just looked at your profile and did you know that your "basics" section says you have no children? You must have been on MN for a long time!

LOL at psycho - now will need to increase composting to offset my own eruptions ... bugger

OP posts:
sorkycake · 29/10/2008 10:10

I'm in denial

rebelmum1 · 29/10/2008 10:19

I don't think this is a real reason at all, he just wants a quieter life ...

rebelmum1 · 29/10/2008 10:20

surely it is better to populate the world with more people like you to help resolve it's problems is the counter argument ..

stillstanding · 29/10/2008 10:46

if a little arrogant, no?!

OP posts:
Litchick · 29/10/2008 10:58

A friend of mine who is faaar more enviro than us ( home educate, recycle, veggie, don't fly) had one of those eco assessments at the same time as us. Our carbon footprint was way smaller . It can only be that she has five and we have two kids.
That's not to say she shouldn't have those kids. The way they're brought up might mean one of 'em solves all our energy problems .

rebelmum1 · 29/10/2008 11:00

apparently that's arrogant ...

stillstanding · 29/10/2008 11:27

Sorry, rebelmum, realise my post seemed a bit rude when it wasn't meant to be.

I just meant that it would seem arrogant to think that world needs more People Like Me, i.e. that my attitudes and worldview and genes are the ones to be perpetuated. Presumably most people think like that. It also assumes that my kids would have the same attitudes to the environment etc as me which may not be the case.

OP posts:
Peachy · 29/10/2008 11:32

Well if you assume that the entire point of protecting the planet is to ensure the survival of humanity then more people = less chance, no? So it does work both ways

'Actually, there is a better ethical case to be made for concieving fewer children when there are so many unwanted ones in the world: why not adopt a few of them? Oh, but I forgot, mundanes are silly about genetics... '

I would adopt actually but someone has to have those babies first and whilst there are kids who need it the 'supply' (what a hateful term when used fior children) wold run out very soon. Also, I have watched a few adoptions long term- through family and work- and it is my observation that those who want to adopt generally make an excellent fist of it, but the risks are much higher for those who wouldn't have chosen it in an ideal situation. Adoption has to be somehing you really want.

Sputnik · 29/10/2008 11:33

Onthewarpath, I do find that rather controversial, strangely enough. What shall we do, cull people at age 60?

Soylent Green, anyone?

SummatAnNowt · 29/10/2008 11:55

You can have some of my family's quota! My brother and sis and their partners have chosen not to have children and I just have the one!

Or you could look on the pessimistic side and decide you need a have a few spares for the overdue flu pandemic!

onthewarpath · 30/10/2008 08:11

I do definitely not want to kill people off at 60 but I do not think stopping to have children is the answer either. I do think that we need to adapt to a world with more people in. I am sure we can do that, our planet has been through far worse and is still will be standing if you have more than one child and happen to still have grand and great grand parents. PsychoAxeMurdererMun, I like your style.

PsychoAxeMurdererMum · 30/10/2008 09:01

I need that style onthewarpath........tis the only way forward for me now as I already have the five, and killing them off to satisfy the few that think I am irresponsable is kind of frowned upon (and messy......and I just don;t DO messy, ask flame!!)

onthewarpath · 30/10/2008 15:19

Only got the 4 at the moment but might still catch up with you...

For the anecdote, I walk my children to and back from school.(I do not drive and my choice school is not in my catchment area). on "rubbish day" I canot help but look at the bin bags in front of the houses I pass by (very sad I know...)It makes me very proud as even with my too-numerous-to-be-environment-friendly house, I only have the one bag every week and I still have a DC in nappies(sorry I never opted for the washable ones, don't really know why). So not doing too bad I think.

RottenOtter · 30/10/2008 20:51

i dont get this argument

stop bloody driving - flying round the world and consuming vast quantities of tvs etc

thats UNNATURAL

pro creating is what we were put on this planet to do

thats what i do well

long may it continue

onthewarpath · 31/10/2008 07:55

Clap clap clap

ChairmumMiaow · 31/10/2008 08:00

stillstanding - I haven't read the whole thread but I've just read your post to DH and he says "he's right you know" and starts lecturing me about it!

(I have one DS and want another DC eventually - its under discussion!)

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