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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to reaally not be able to understand why, people say they can't afford to buy or rent a house if they are working?

200 replies

iamtrickyjigsaw · 26/10/2008 13:42

i mean me and dh don't earn much, but we managed it just about.
i just can't understand all these peple on here saying i can't afford rent or a morgage.

OP posts:
firstontheway · 26/10/2008 21:16

I haven't read all this thread, gave up halfway I'm afraid!
But I'm a nurse on, an underpaid, but only few thousand pounds off the average salary. My husband is a phd student getting about £16,000 a year. So as a household thats not a very poor income, but we struggle. We're currently looking for somewhere cheaper and have to find about £250 for 'fees' plus deposit, and of course still pay all our bills, council tax and food. It's hard. On top of that we are worrying about our first child being born next year, pitiful maternity pay, and his phd salary stopping next sept.

We live in Leicester and if we wanted to, we could find somewhere incredibly cheap. But believe me, no-one in their right mind, let alone someone with a baby/ children would want to live in these areas, or in some of the absolute pits we've seen!
Plea$se don't judge people who are worse off than you, or who choose to live their lives differently. What's acceptable accomodation for you may not be for someone else.

firstontheway · 26/10/2008 21:18

And as for BUYING... pah.

I'd have to sell my eyes

ilovemydog · 26/10/2008 21:27

what it the social stigma with renting?

My uncle had a rent controlled flat in San Francisco, which meant that the rent couldn't increase at more than something like 2% per annum. He was happy there until he met the love of his life, who also had a rent controlled flat in NYC.

So, make your mind up time, and they both realized that their respective flats meant more than the relationship.

I think council flats/houses should be able to be passed one generation, so there is stability. Also so that if a family member ends up having to take care of an elderly parent, they won't be penalized for doing so...

expatinscotland · 26/10/2008 21:29

id' chose a rent-controlled flat in San Fran over just about any man.

MrsGokWan · 26/10/2008 21:33

When I married my first husband in '85 we bought our first house for £23k. My husband was on £12k and I was on £7k.The mortgage was 21/2 times our joint wages. We moved up the ladder until '91 when we seperated. I kept on the house and worked 90 hours a week so I could keep it. Then I had an accident and could no longer work. My house was reposessed and I was lucky enough to be rehoused in a 1 bed top floor council flat (from my 3 bed Edwardian town house.)

I am now remarried to my wonderful 2nd DH. My DH is a teacher and after tax earns about £14.5k. I am severly disabled so am on benefits. We have 3 children. The place that I lost sold recently £280k. Now will someone please do the maths and tell me why I can't afford a mortgage?

We are now in a 3 bed HA place and even with no luxuries, we can't afford frills. My In laws paid for our holiday this year. The 7 of us had a caravan holiday. I make money by selling bits on Ebay for birthday and Christmas presents. Most of our funiture is from Freecycle, Ebay or given us.

OP please can you tell me how I can afford to buy a house?

LittleCheese · 26/10/2008 21:46

I havnt read all this thread but OP you say you are a low income family with £1700 coming in a month. We have £1200 coming in a month paying 3700 a month, really want to move somewhere cheaper but due to poor credit history for both me and DH moving is looking difficult, you really shouldnt judge people who cant afford to rent/buy because being in this sort of situation is really not nice

catsmother · 26/10/2008 22:03

What a nasty, smug, arrogant and downright scathing OP.

It is NEVER as simple as saying "I earn £xxx and I got a mortgage, so why can't others" - the insinuation being that those who haven't must therefore be thick / stupid / lazy /feckless.

Real affordability isn't about the salary on your payslip and the income multiples allowed by the mortgage lender. Instead, it's about the infinite array of different circumstances different people find themselves in, which mean that couple A on £25,000 can afford to do something while couple B on the same income can't ........

..... for example, Couple A may be fortunate enough to have no children, or, free family childcare in the same town. They may be lucky enough to have minimal (or even none at all) commuting costs. They may have scrimped and saved for a deposit, but apart from living frugally had no other call on their disposable income while they were saving. They may be due an inheritance within their mortgage term meaning they felt reasonably safe in taking a cheaper, interest only loan. They might live in an area well served by public transport, meaning a car isn't a necessity. They might live in an area with a lot of amenities right on the doorstep. They might have a variety of supermarkets within easy reach, meaning they can shop around for the cheapest food bills. I could go on and on .....

Couple B, meanwhile, ostensibly "the same", have to find £100s a month just to get to work. They have to pay childcare as they fall just outside the limit for tax credit help. They may have to pay child maintenance as this is a 2nd marriage. They might still be paying debts accrued when one or both was out of work and/or ill. They have to run a car, because they live in the middle of nowhere and/or there isn't public transport to take them to work and/or they work anti social hours. They may be forced to do all their shopping in one large supermarket because the next nearest is a 25 mile round trip. They can't save for a deposit because they've had student loans to repay, or train tickets to work etc etc. You get the picture ........

If getting on the "ladder" were really that easy, the vast majority of people would - of that I am sure. No-one is going to piss away all their disposable income if there was a real possibility of them buying a house provided they spent only on absolute necessities for a few years. For a huge number of people, the money spent on holidays, the hi-fi, the meals out and so on would NEVER be enough to buy anything now (or the deposit), let alone somewhere suitable for a family. Indeed, there are significant numbers of families who, though they are lucky enough to have something they will one day own, are totally trapped in overcrowded homes because, except for the comparatively lucky few, moving up the "ladder" no longer exists - for the simple reason that property price rises have increased far above and beyond salary increases.

The attitude of the OP here is incredibly cruel and thoughtless. She should be counting her blessings, not sneering at those who'll never be in her position.

Twinklemegan · 26/10/2008 22:13

We're couple B in catsmother's example. We own a house but only, ONLY because:

a) we bought years ago when we had relatively more money than we do now, and houses were one third the price, and

b) my parents helped us to move recently, or else we'd have been trapped forever in our tiny tiny house. For most people, house prices have risen way way more than their incomes.

As for renting, well in some cases it costs more to rent than to buy. If you can't afford one, you can't afford the other. Unless of course you are lucky enough to earn so little that you get your rent paid for.

cupsoftea · 26/10/2008 22:21

This is a no brainer - you don't earn alot so can't afford to save for a deposit & can't afford to pay a mortgage. Simple as that.

OldLadyDay · 26/10/2008 23:01

no brainer - yes

Quattrocento · 26/10/2008 23:59

This issue engages me as a parent as well

So being practically minded, I think:

Save up for retirement
Save up for school fees
Save up for university fees
Save up to fund a deposit for a flat

I am very tired (and not much further forrard) of all this saving up and am now off to join the "i deserve a swimming pool" thread

Peachy · 27/10/2008 09:44

'BUT we are all aware that there has been rampant unwise consumer spending in last 10 years (or so). If more people had been prudent about saving and planning financially wisely, rather than juggling debt on 0% credit cards and embracing the Primark culture (buy it once, throw it away without even washing it once, buy another, etc.) -- probably many more people would have been on the property ladder.'

Guess how much we have to pay back each month n credit etc?

zero

we have none

life's far more complex than that; we couldn't save before we moved in together as I was living in my ex's back bedroom and about to be homeless. We bought then dh gt seriously ill just as I couldn't work (about to give birth)so we sold the house, cleared all debts and rented; if we hadn't done so we'd have lost the house anyhow.

So we rent. big deal. We earns our money, we pays our way- it's an honest living so what of it? far nicer house now than we could have afforded before anyway.

edam · 27/10/2008 09:53

The people who have racked up huge debts are not necessarily the same people who can't afford to buy. And tbh the economy has been depending on consumer spending - the government and financial services industry have been encouraging people to get credit. If everyone had turned puritan and refused, we'd have been in recession a lot sooner.

Of course there is personal responsibility but in climate where credit is pushed at you all the time, it's hardly surprising that lots of people took it. And it may well have been affordable when they signed up - but circumstances change, people get divorced or get ill or lose their jobs.

cory · 27/10/2008 09:59

iamtrickyjigsaw on Sun 26-Oct-08 13:47:18
"well we only earn 25k a year between us.
our income is about 1700 a month, our morgage is 700 a month its a 30 year morgage though"

If you think this puts you among the poorer of earning families, I am afraid you are mistaken. 25k a year is not at all bad, lots of people earn less.

needmorecoffee · 27/10/2008 11:53

bout 50% earn less cos the median income is 22K

expatinscotland · 27/10/2008 11:54

£25K is pretty good money.

ExtraFancy · 27/10/2008 12:00

My DH and I earn barely £20,000 between us, and currently rent from my MIL. We are VERY fortunate to be able to do this as we would NEVER be able to afford a mortgage or rent for anything more than a one-bedroom flat otherwise. We don't drive, and DH walks to work (he works in a shop, I'm a low-grade civil servant). We need all our spare money for the bloody fuel and food bills.

The house next door to us (3 bed semi) has just been let for £825 a month. We pay almost half that, and it's still a third of our monthly income!

pingping · 27/10/2008 12:03

iamtrickyjigsaw its not just rent u have to pay when you live in a house or the mortgage you also have to pay council tax water gas electric and everything else on top of that.

I lived in a flat that took my whole wage I have never been so broke but had no choice at the time.

I now live happily in a cheap flat.

Cheesesarnie · 27/10/2008 12:07

to op-because were not all lucky enough.you want to come work out incomings and outgoings with me and tell mehow to do it better then your welcome.we privatly rent a damp non heated house for £500 a month.obviously wed like to live somewhere with heating and no damp but cant afford it.as for buying-your 'aving a larf.

WideWebWitch · 27/10/2008 12:09

We have an above average income but can't afford to buy because

a) I don't want to buy unless I can get somewhere MUCH nicer than the place we're renting
b) our rent is v cheap compared to what a mortgage would cost us (tiny percentage of net income vs large percentage of net income if we were to buy somewhere I consider nice enough)

I worked out recently that if we were to get a mortgage the same as our rent it would get us £130k worth of mortgage = a cupboard studio = not big enough for 4 of us. So why would I buy now, increase our outgoings and potentially be left with an asset that will very likely be worth less than I paid for it in a years time? It would be mad.

Also we don't have a deposit but mainly because we've spent the past year paying off debt as we recognised that we wouldn't be able to keep shifting it around onto 0% deals as we had been doing.

So next year is about saving a deposit, watching prices go down further (imo) and further improving our credit rating (which I've also been working on over the past year).

irresponsible lending IS still out there though, our bank recently offered me a STUPID amount of money, WELL over what I'd consider was prudent. I was shocked and no way would consider it.

Cheesesarnie · 27/10/2008 15:11

we can get a mortage for a garage but thats it.

i suppose we'd be warmer in a garage though.

darkpunk · 27/10/2008 15:20

depends where you live..around here 1 bed flats are £150,000 (appx).. and that's only because prices have fallen so much..you would need to be earning around £40,000 pa. just to afford that....3 bed houses start from around £275,000 ...it's not easy unless you earn mega money.

Quattrocento · 28/10/2008 19:54

Sorry - realise my last post was wildly incoherent.

Have any of you thought about saving up deposits for your DCs?

Or is that just ridiculous?

pointygravedogger · 28/10/2008 20:03

You jhave to have quite a bit of money to save, quatt. And that saving usually goes on car repairs, new boots and jackets, an annual local holiday, new pillows etc etc.

There is a stupendous lack of understanding about how the majority of people live on mn.

Illhavethisinsize12 · 28/10/2008 20:14

700 amonth mortgage, wow, when did you buy your house, 1940 lol

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