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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be very annoyed by this incident? (prompted by Staffy bull terrier thread)

143 replies

thatsnotmymonster · 19/10/2008 22:17

Reading the other thread about Staffordshire Bull Terriers reminded me that I was going to post about this so...

My sister was visiting last week with her 2 children. We went for a walk around the woodland footpaths across the road from my house. She had a backpack with her 1yo in and I had a double buggy with my 6mo dd in it. My 3.5yo ds was on his scoot bike and my 2yo dd and dneice were walking. These 3 were about 10 metres ahead of us on a straight footpath when suddenly from behind us a dog came tearing past us, it ran straight to the children and knocked my niece to the ground and stood over her. She was screaming and the dog was nuzzling all round her head (we couldn't tell what it was doing). My sister and I screamed at it as we ran towards them. I pulled the dog off and held it (it was wearing a studded leather harness) while my sis comforted her hysterical child who was thankfully physically unharmed, however she was scared of dogs BEFORE this happened.

After a couple of minutes the owners arrived, running and breathless, saying, 'oh she would never hurt anyone'. I said, 'well she knocked a child to the ground and stood over her and you never know with a dog.'

They acted very indignant and said, 'You don't walk round here much do you? It is basically the local dog park.'

It IS NOT any kind of dog park- it is just an area of public footpaths.

The dog looked very much like a Staffordshire Bull Terrier although I am not an expert so I'm not sure.

Should we have been keeping better control of our children? We were quite shaken by this and I was really annoyed at the couple and their attitude. My ds now wants to be picked up whenever we see a dog when we're out and goodness knows what my niece will be like now!

OP posts:
snowleopard · 20/10/2008 11:32

Erm, yes I did salsmum

"All dogs are killing machines - as are cats, tigers, hyenas etc in that they are natural predators and have bodies designed to kill other animals."

by me, on this thread. You don't seem to be capable of following a rational argument, but constantly fall back on how nice your own SBT is as some kind of debating tactic. It doesn't matter how nice your SBT is. SBTs kill, and so could yours. That's why people are scared of them.

combustiblelemon · 20/10/2008 11:35

Teenagers kill. That doesn't mean they're all violent and out of control.

Bubbaluv · 20/10/2008 11:37

Snowleopard, I think you are totally within your rights to fear and distrust SBTs as a first response. However, I don't think you need to totally discount the fact that they also make great pets and are wonderful with children.

snowleopard · 20/10/2008 11:41

Well, that is a very good point, people kill. But then we are scared of other people, aren't we, when walking late at night for example if a lone man follows us? Fears arise from what we know can happen and where the danger lies. If a known dangerous dog knocks your child down, or jumps up on them, or chases them, then it is rational to be scared and dog owners should not wheel out the line "s/he is lovely and wouldn't hurt a fly" because they don't know that.

NotBigNotClever · 20/10/2008 11:43

It all boils down to the owners taking responsibility - surely? The OP is entirely right to be outraged by the behaviour of the owners in the incident that happened to her. They should not have let the dog get out of their sight, and they should have been very, very apologetic when they finally caught up with their dog and found that it had knocked over a child. I am a dog owner and I particularly love terriers: but not SBTs, although I have friends who have them and as long as the dogs are well-trained they are sweet and make good pets. However, historically terriers were bred for aggression. If you don't know that, then you shouldn't really keep a terrier. Any dog can "turn" and all children should be taught not to approach a strange dog without asking the owner first. And please teach your children never to put their face down to a dog. Any dog. Even your own much-loved pet.

snowleopard · 20/10/2008 11:45

hmm, I don't discount that bubbaluv - obviously there are staffies who are much-loved and who have always behaved and who people enjoy having as pets. But like some others on this thread I can't understand why anyone would want one when there is a risk of deadly behaviour - especially if you have children. SBTs do attack children - it's a fact. Of course of all the SBTs in the world, only a tiny proprtion will ever attack but given that they can, and that if they do it tends to be serious, I can't fathom why you'd have one in the house with your kids. But each to their own.

I am not singling out SBTs - I feel the same about any dog breed that has a history of deadly attacks.

TskullsScreaming · 20/10/2008 11:47

Dog areas in parks? I would not be delighted to think that some of my council tax was being spent segregating bits of public parks specifically for dogs.

snowleopard · 20/10/2008 11:49

Well actually I would welcome properly fenced and gated park areas for dogs if they were only allowed off the lead in there. Then I could play with DS in the park and let him run around freely without having to be on constant bounding aggressive dog-watch - and he could grow up not so scared of dogs, as he wouldn't have them running and barking at him all the time.

kayzisexpecting · 20/10/2008 11:49

Any dog can attack a child though not just SBTs. It does sound like you are singling them out.

If as you say you shouldn't get a SBT because one day it might attack your children then you should never own any breed of dog. Let's just ask for it to be illegal to own dogs full stop.

I don't even like SBT's, sorry to all owners of them but I don't think they are nice looking dogs, so I'm not an owner sticking up for my dog.

kayzisexpecting · 20/10/2008 11:51

Snowleopard, I do think that is a great idea to have seperate dog/non dog areas in parks.

snowleopard · 20/10/2008 11:52

I have only looked at evidence of SBTs attacking because some people have been describing them as safe, and because they are the topic of this thread. But the points I am making, as I've said, refer to all dangerous dogs.

staffylover · 20/10/2008 11:52

snowleopard, sorry to be so blunt, but you are so silly! the only killing machine on this earth is man. all the animals you mention only kill when they are hungary.

you see a few reports in the paper and you have silly irrational fears. duh! please, i beg you, go and seek therepy for this irrational fear. it is out of proportion to the reality.

snowleopard · 20/10/2008 11:54

I realise all dogs can bite. The point I have been making many times is that dangerous dogs have more strength and killing capacity, so that when they bite/attack, they tend to main and kill.

That is why I fear dangerous dogs more.

NotDoingTheHousework · 20/10/2008 11:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TskullsScreaming · 20/10/2008 11:56

I can sort of see what you mean Snowleopard but I think it's pandering to people who can't be bothered to control their dogs.

NotBigNotClever · 20/10/2008 11:58

Excuse me, staffylover, but have you ever seen working terriers doing the job they were bred for? (I'm not talking SBTs here, because I have never kept them) Nothing to do with hunger: trust me, they kill everything that is small, furry and squeaks. They are bred to be pest control. I have always kept terriers from working stock. I don't work them. They are family pets, but they do react extremely strongly to stimuli such as high-pitched squeaking and will exterminate any small furries that cross their path. No, my dcs don't keep guineapigs or hamsters.

snowleopard · 20/10/2008 11:58

Lordy staffylover, if I had a phobia I would never go to the park at all, and believe me I am in there most days, surrounded by poorly controlled dogs.

"the only killing machine on this earth is man. all the animals you mention only kill when they are hungary."

Sorry, that is rubbish. Many, many dangerous dogs, including staffies, have killed people. Was it really just because they were hungry? By killing machine, I mean an animal with the physical capacity and design to kill - ie a predator. Dogs are natural predators and have to varying degrees, and aggressive instinct. They are far more efficient killing machines than humans in terms of body design. Yes humans kill a lot of people in wars etc but naked, poorly trained humans running around parks with massive teeth aren't so much of a risk.

Bubbaluv · 20/10/2008 12:08

I understand your point Snowleopard, but surely more children are killed by their parents than by thier family dog? I intend to keep my DH despite the risk. (and the car and the powerpoints and the bath...)
There are so many things in my DS's life that pose a life-threatening risk that I still allow, and very few of them offer the joy, comfort and happiness that dog ownership brings. DH is pretty nice too.

snowleopard · 20/10/2008 12:17

That's very true, we're surrounded by dangers. But suppose a full-grown man ran up to the OP's niece, knocked her down and stood over her threateningly and then his wife came up and said cheerily "oh he would never hurt anyone". That is what riled the OP. A dog that can kill behaved in a threatening, terrifying manner and the owner totally failed to recognise that and acted as if it was the victim's fault for being scared.

Likewise a human can kill but behaving in this manner would be outrageous, and defending it would be unheard of. Any human who did this would be immediately recognised as a risk and arrested/assessed/charged because it would be indicative of increased danger.

It is acting as if these dogs are harmless that is so offensive. OK the risk is small. But since it's there, people should control their dogs and apologise wen they fail to.

staffylover · 20/10/2008 12:21

snowleopard??????????? it is not rubbish it is a fact! give me a figure for how many people who have been killed by dogs. i would say it is very few. its like talking to a brick wall. you are seriously IRRATIONAL. there are poorly trained humans who kill and maim but not neccessarily in parks.

Bubbaluv · 20/10/2008 12:23

Absolutely, and as I said, that dog owner was totally out of line.
They probably thought they were being helpful by saiying the dog was friendly though to be fair - I'm sure (or hope at least) they were upset by the situation too.
Should have apologised profusely.
On the other hand and adult man behaving like a dog would be very bloody scary! If he then pooed on the path I hope his wife would be responsible and pick it up!

Bubbaluv · 20/10/2008 12:25

Staffylover, lots of animals kill for reasons other than hunger. Foxes, dolphins, yes dogs as well as humans.
Life's too short to be scared of everthing though.

Bubbaluv · 20/10/2008 12:29

For what it's worth, I think rotties are in a bit of a different catagory anyway. They are HERDING dogs bred specifically to have a LOW bite respose. They were used to herd the most high value stock by throwing their weight against them rather than nipping at their heals. The romans even used them to herd and guard slaves without damaging them.
Dangerous rotties (other than the very rare psycho you would get in any population) are a product of idiot owners IMO.

Beelliesebub · 20/10/2008 12:45

Yanbu.....
I have three large dogs. A Doberman, a Boxer and a Weimaraner and they are NEVER off the lead outside of our house unless we take them to a really secluded beach near us and we are positive that we are alone. The second we spot someone in the distance (and we can see for miles) we get them back and put their leads on. They are also walked separately so we can be absolutely certain that we are in control as much as we can be.
It irritates me so much when people let their dogs run about all over and then say "Oh he/she wouldn't hurt a fly" but try saying that to DS1 when he was 21 months old and some stupid woman let her corgi run about and it buried it's teeth into my baby's face! (no it wasn't the queen, before anyone asks! lol).
He's 22 now and it hasn't left much of a scar but it has scarred nonetheless. The point is that it's irresponsible dog owners that need to be addressed. I don't care how big or small a dog is, I have to admit, I'm terrified of my friends Yorkshire Terriers but at the end of the day they all have teeth that are designed to tear flesh. You wouldn't let someone who wasn't used to it drive a car so why would you let a dog near people that it doesn't know and in doing so can never be sure of your dogs response. I certainly don't know what's going through my dogs mind so how can they? I have a pretty good idea...... BUT I don't KNOW so I'd rather not take a chance!

wotulookinat · 20/10/2008 12:49

I have 2 staffies, and I can imagine how scarey it must have been for a kiddie. Any dog can harm a person, but some dogs are stronger than others.
I know that my dogs would hurt a fly, which is why they are not let off their leads in public.