to think there is no such thing as poverty in the uk?

[spottyzebrahasthelurgy]

i mean no one is really starving to death are they?

we should be campaigning for that to end too. Its shocking there are people starving while others try to decide which yatch/mansion to use this weekend.

YABU. There is poverty in the UK and people do starve to death.

I think also we should mention those elderly women (unmarried or widowers) who did not work for 30 odd years (at least not in paid employment) who did not therefore qualify for a full state pension and therefore have to exist on less than £90 per week.
Yes, I would class this as poverty.

Also, take a walk round the Waterloo station arches if you want to see people who are homeless and dying of TB.

They exist, there is poverty.

It's not as "in your face" as in Africa perhaps, but it exists.

despite the fact this is a rich nation we're still happy to have people living in poverty in this country.

see living on vouchers
and destition in Leeds

I fully expect to be told that failed asylum seekers don't count...

this used also to happen to asylum seekers 2002 report it took a legal case at the house of Lords to stop the UK govt dooming people who had fled to this country to destitution. now it's just the ones waiting to go back.

its a bit more than 90 pounds. I believe it is £110. Which is what my mum gets. She never worked and dad buggered off then died. And gets her rent paid.
To me thats reasonably ok. She has more for herself than we have each as a family.
The homeless are certainly in poverty but £110 per week isn't. IMO.

nmc - have you tried to work with £110 p.w for everything - food gas electric etc etc. it all adds up and tbh you are borderline. esp in the winter for fuel.

I'm doing OK for the most part, it gets a bit much for the other, but i'm v v v lucky to ahve a fantastic support netwrok so know I always have food, and if need be always have electric & hot water, not everyone is as luck thou.

to me if you can only afford one meal a day, of scrape money together with food, or heat one room (or not be able to at all) then you live in poverty. and qiute frankly to think that it's not in the UK is quite ignorant I think (if that's the right word) - then again I was ignorant to london's 'slums' until I watched ross kemp's gangs of london - now that was an eye opener - and made me grateful for what I do have.

yup. We are 6 of us at much less than 110 per person per week and we pay a mortgage out of it too.
My mum is on £110 a week given she is an old lady with no pension or savings and while we are cold with no car, she is warm and toasty and runs a car. And she gets Winter Fuel Allowance too! And no rent.

the wfa does get me actually tbh - I know elderly folks get colder and need the heating on more - but what about us with young kids??

we have been campiagning for years to get WFA for disabled people. And getting nowhere. Evil Guvmint plot to finish us al off I reckon.

while I agree that wfa shouldn't be just for the elderly it's a fact that most "winter" related deaths are among the elderly - and I don't know about you - but £250 (or £125 - dependingon which you qualify for) wouldn't cover my heating bill over the colder months of the year........

cor isn't this a social science essay question.well poverty isn't a static definition thus it changes

there is hardship,and people experiencing stress and anxiety about finances

the inferred message of well no one is starving so poverty schmoverty is a useless digression

people are struggling to make ends meet
pay fuel bills
have a miserable life

that makes me sad

It's a very difficult thing to make a judgement about isn't it. I'm not denying there's poverty in the UK, there is (though not on the scale of third world countries obviously).

But there is also an issue about priorities which shouldnt be ducked. I used to know of a few families who would claim that they couldn't afford to feed or clothe their kids adequately, yet the adults smoked and would go out drinking.

Also (interesting one this!) we know a family of single mum and teenage son who live in a really awful house - I've seen through the front door and it looks unlived in, bare plaster walls, no proper heating etc yet the son attends private school!!! Now obviously I don't know every detail of their finances but the vast majority of people would consider private school a luxury beyond luxury.

ah deserving and undeserving poor argument...i find these threads a bit unsatisfying

someone will rock up and say i know someone on dss has big leather sofa/tv/etc.

call that poor

I wouldn't use the terminology 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor myself.

But the issue of how people use their money is relevant, it's daft to say its not.
Family A can be living on a small amount of money per week and may buy vegetables, and cook healthy wholesome meals.
Family B may live on the same amount but spend on fags instead.
That's a fact - it's pointless to pretend otherwise.

what's the solution then?how does one determine who spends on fags/beer who spends on vegs

I have a big leather sofa (ok it's 8yrs old and falling to pieces......), and a big TV( well I suppose it's quite small by today's comparisons), oh and I have a nice 7kg drum washing machine, and a new dishwasher (bought earlier this year) - oh and I went on holiday too!!! (fancy that hey - i can't be poor I could afford all that......never mind where they came from - oh lets not forget my rollies - costs me less a month than having 1 decent bottle of wine a week, or a takeaway for the whole family once a month - but damn me for spending my limited money on what I want to spend it on)

YABU. There is poverty in the UK - particularly in pockets of London, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow and Belfast.

This is not only apparent in people out of work/on state benefits but also in low income households.

In 2006/07, around 13 million people in the UK were living in households below this low-income threshold.

Anyone who thinks there is no poverty in the UK is very, very ignorant.

Woah... why's everyone getting so defensive?!!

I was putting out facts - people prioritise what they spend their money on. I wouldn't choose to spend on fags personally, doesn't matter whether it would cost less than a bottle of wine or not; it's my choice.

Other people make different choices.

It seems it's very difficult to state simple facts these days on MN without people getting their knickers in a twist

Yes, it is true that there is poverty in the UK. That is official.

Yes, it is true that people prioritise what they spend their money on. For some people, fags, booze, whatever, comes ahead of healthy eating.

just thought I would mention the rates payable for income support:
INCOME SUPPORT/INCOME-BASED JSA;PERSONAL ALLOWANCES

single
under 25 £47.95
aged 25 or over £60.50

lone parent
under 18 £47.95
aged 18 or over £60.50

couple
both under 18* £47.95
both under 18, with responsibility for a child £72.35
one under 18, one under 25 £47.95
one under 18, one over 25 £60.50
both aged 18 or over £94.95

so let's assume a single person aged 24 with no children. They will be entitled to housing benefit, but at a fixed rate, and if their accommodation costs more than that rate, they will have to find the extra. let's also assume they took out a Social Fund loan to buy some essential stuff for their home; that will be repayable at up to £7 per week. let's next assume that for a short period, their housing benefit claim was disallowed - something went wrong with the dates - so they have to pay that back as well at £3.75 per week.

so very easily, we get a person who has £35 a week to spend on food, clothes, gas, electricity, transport, toiletries, telephone calls, and indeed EVERYTHING.

that clearly indicates poverty to me.

the existence of benefits does not in any way guarantee that people will actually receive even a subsistence level of income.

Absolutely iheartdusty. And of course many people who work and aren't entitled to any benefits are also often in a position where accommodation, food, heating etc costs more than they bring in so have exactly the same problem.

"For some people, fags, booze, whatever, comes ahead of healthy eating."

and for some of us healthy eating comes first, fags 2nd - it's not a case of one or the other

very true iheart - that was my DB not so long ago. The poor in this country (whether working or benefit claimants) get a rough deal, I suppose one of the "advantages" (if you're ok with budgetting and spending frugally) of having children is the addition of CTC, and CB to add to your weekly income - not a lot admittedly, but can help.

FAQ - you seem to be responding as if I were addressing you personally!

Of course a lot of people can afford healthy food and fags, choose to buy both.

Poorer people may not be able to afford both - and sadly, in this situation, some (not all) will prioritise smoking.