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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want to emigrate with DH and DD for a better life....but dd's biological father is here.

51 replies

KarisTiasMum · 03/10/2008 13:46

I dont want to bring my daughter up in this country any more, like many people i am becoming increasingly worried and dissatisfied with what our future holds here, politics, terrorism, finanical crisis, hige rise in anti-social behaviour etc.. i could go on!..

we have the opportunity to emigrate to Australia. DH's twin sister is already there plus with DH's qualifications and work plus a financial lump sum we are due, we will be in the perfect position to go in the next year or so.

DD's father does see her on a fairly regular basis, although his imput is not exactly enthusiastic.. he just sticks to him times, nothing extra, no taking days off to see her, no holidays, she isnt his priority if he has something else on etc...

Im not naive enough to think Australia is without its problems, but i do know they are nowhere near at the levels which we have here.

I just cannot justify giving up this opportunity of a better life for all of us, because of a half hearted input from her dad.
I would like to hear what people think and how you think i can approach the subject when we need to.

OP posts:
eviz · 03/10/2008 19:37

Hatwoman, what a thought-provoking answer!

rockdoctor · 03/10/2008 19:57

hatwoman you've hit the nail on the head.

DP and I lived in Oz for 15 yrs and returned to the UK a couple of years ago for various reasons. The grass isn't necessarily greener...

My own view on a lot of the social issues is that Oz is simply around 10-15 years behind UK (this is a good thing but it will almost certainly catch up).

eviz · 03/10/2008 20:07

Rockdoctor, Canada is like this too (I dream of emigrating there, but went earlier this year and it really did feel like a timewarp - 80's music playing in restaurants, the works!)

It's the size and price of the houses which attract me though.

It was also pointed out to me about the vastly reduced annual leave allowance.

Is it better in the EU I wonder? Aren't Germany/France etc meant to be very family friendly?

TillyScoutsmum · 03/10/2008 20:16

From a slightly different perspective, my dad gave permission for my mum to emigrate to Oz with me (and her new dh who was an Aussie) when I was 5 years old. For one reason or another, we didn't go in the end but it always made me feel really upset as a child that dad had been willing to let me go . He says that he didn't want to stand in the way of me having a "better life", but I still felt shit about (it even bothers me now if I think about it )

jawjawnotwarwar · 03/10/2008 20:25

I think if you genuinely loved your daughter, you would not even entertain the idea of separating her from her father. Are you sure you're not using the threat of taking away his daughter to 'punish' him for whatever wrongs he did to you?

Most of the young, educated Australians are actually over here, in case you hadn't noticed.

Dandelioness · 03/10/2008 20:41

Your ex may seem to you that he's not very enthusiastic about his relationship with your DD, but it may not seem that way to her or even to him. The fact is, from the sound of it, he is seeing her regularly and in keeping to his times he's keeping to his agreement. He is in her life, and he's making the effort to stay in her life, even if you feel he should be making more.

I can understand how difficult it must be when you want to emigrate, but the fact is you are tethered here by DD's relationship to her father, and IMO you should respect that relationship by putting it above your own desires for moving.

pamelat · 03/10/2008 20:48

I have a friend in a similar situation. Only difference is that she now has another child, with her now husband.

Her older daughters biological father lives in the UK. They have the opportunity to go to Australia but are not "allowed".

Apparently the courts ruled that they would have the duty to ensure that the daughter gets back from her visits (currently fortnightly!)

expatinscotland · 03/10/2008 20:50

i know a Kiwi who has stayed in the UK for almost 13 years now so her son can maintain a relationship with his biological father.

not ideal, he sticks to his times, too.

she wants to move back, but said she can't until their son is 16 because it's not on to take him from his dad.

i hope one day their son realises what a big person his mother is.

beansmum · 03/10/2008 20:57

I think it really depends what you are willing to do to keep up a relationship with your dd's dad. And what you could afford to do as well. And you need to have something sorted out, fixed dates for visits, times for phonecalls etc, before you go if you decide that it really is the best thing to do. And you need to have a really clear idea of why it is such a good idea because you may have to explain it in court.

Liffey · 03/10/2008 20:59

My friend moved to Brisbane 18 months ago and says that it is not quite everything she hoped it would be.

My children and I live in a different country to their father. That wasn't my choice though. He is on the same continent mind you! So flights are cheaper.

I am not denying the place of a father, but I think sometimes people think it is the single most ONLY important factor in a child's life, and their are lots of other factors to consider too. If having a father in your child's life is at the expense of the other factors then it is hard to weigh it all up.

But for YOUR sake I would advise you against doing anything that could make your child angry with you when she is older. My children can't accuse me of anything because it wasn't my choice iyswim.

Flights to Australia are so expensive. Is there anywhere in the World that you could go to where you could fly back and forth a bit more easily? Flights to and from the USA are a lot more reasonable.

wannaBe · 03/10/2008 22:12

"If having a father in your child's life is at the expense of the other factors then it is hard to weigh it all up." would you be happy to make the same statement about having a mother? since when did separating from someone give anyone the right to decide on a child's behalf that having a father isn't the be all and end all so you can go 12000 miles around the world?

My personal opinion is that no, you cannot even contemplate emigrating to australia. You have a daughter and you are only one of her parents. You do not have the right to decide to cut the relationship between your daughter and her father.

Liffey · 03/10/2008 23:14

If the mother puts something before her children, drugs, alcohol, an abusive partner, then I think that the children would probably be better in a stable loving environment with just their father. I know a single Dad who has sole guardianship of his children, and his case, I believe that's right for his family. So while two parents is ideal I think that a stable, loving lifestyle with at least one happy responsible sane parent is what counts most.

People sometimes have an idealised notion of putting the missing parent back into a fractured family. It isn't easy. Circumstances can be so far from the Waltons that it would make your head spin.

HOWEVER , the OP's children's father does see them regularly and she doesn't say anything about neglect or abuse or drugs or violence. So in her shoes I wouldn't emigrate. But it's not black and white. That's my argument. Nobody can really say this is what absolutely should do, or shouldn't ever do.

mumoverseas · 04/10/2008 07:07

KarisTiasMum, I wasn't meaning to imply that if he/Courts gave permission for you to go you would need to fly back 3 times a year, that is just what the arrangement was in my friends case. She is in the Middle East therefore only 7 hours from the UK and therefore it is easier and cheaper for her to fly the kids back for half terms and summer hols (she also goes back regularly herself as still has a lot of family there) Obviously if you are much further away, that will need to be taken into consideration should it be agreed/ordered that you can leave the uk with your DD.

compo · 04/10/2008 07:20

I don't see what is so bad about an exp sticking to his times to see his daughter
If you look at the Lone Parents board so of the mothers posting there would give their right arm for an ex to stick to the times and not mess tham about. He's just abiding by the law isn't he?

LazyLinePainterJane · 04/10/2008 07:28

Honestly, I can't believe you are even contemplating it. Yes fine, if she didn't see him. But for you to use the fact that he sticks to the agreed access rules as an excuse to say he is "halfhearted".....really? He is doing what you agreed and you are annoyed that he doesn't see her more? You would be on here posting about his pestering if this was the other way round.

Of course you can't take her to Australia! Her father lives here. It's not like he doesn't matter. Maybe in your eyes it is the case that your family is you DD and your DH now and I totally understand that but your DD is still family to your EX.

Are you prepared to pay his airfares every time he wants to visit? What if he wanted to visit once a month? Would you pay for that? Would you put him up in the house? Because it would be unfair not to? You say you couldn't necessarily commit to coming home 3 times a year but you would have to, because you have commitments here. You can't just take her away and hope she forgets about him.

I understand your desire for a fresh start, but think....would you go and let her live with him? Maybe you should go and your DD should have residence with your EX? No? Then it is not fair the other way round.

HorseStories · 04/10/2008 08:35

I know grandparents do not have any rights but you say your ex partner lives at home with his parents, so presumably when he has your DD for visits, his parents are involved. What is that relationship like? My parents would be devastated if my brother's ex-wife wanted to take their grandchildren to another country.

This decision doesn't just affect you.

Nighbynight · 04/10/2008 08:57

sorry, YABU to want to take her to Oz. Can you emigrate to somewhere a bit closer to home, one of the european countries?

depends what you/dh do for a living, but there are english speaking workplaces that can ease you into life in another country.

In any case, I am sure you would have to get her father's permission, so it all depends on him really.

MarshaBrady · 04/10/2008 09:03

Parts of England are definitely just as nice as Australia. In terms of bringing up children.

Why don't you use the financial lump sum you are due to find somewhere you are happier in the UK?

The problems you describe are not good enough reason to take away a child from her father.

Australia has just as many problems with politics, anti-social behaviour, financial crisis and terrorism - well Bali, which affected many Australians - as the UK. Plus the cost of living is rising all the time.

Of course there are great things there, but there are great things in England too if you can find a place you are happy.

As someone who flies to oz once a year, I;d say there is no way you will manage 3 times a year.

AbbeyA · 04/10/2008 09:22

If you were to go I don't think that you could make your DD do such a long plane journey on a regular basis to see her father. I think the father would need to do the travelling and you would have to be prepared to pay for his ticket and find him somewhere to stay. It sounds as if you have a new family and want to forget the old one, unfortunately your DD is part of the old family and it isn't fair to make them into strangers.

twinsetandpearls · 04/10/2008 09:26

We were going to emigrate, we had spoken to her dd father about this and he agreed it was for the best for dd.

I also see dp and I as dd real parents to be honest, her "father" dips in an out of life, his selfishness have put dp in danger, he does not support dd in anyay financially.

Your ex can stop you from moving or at least try to.

We decided not to emigrate but have moved so that dd is about five hours from her dad, again we discussed this with dd and her father.

twinsetandpearls · 04/10/2008 09:27

jawjawnotwarwar to suggest that I don;t love my dd is ill informed, wrong and hurtful.

twinsetandpearls · 04/10/2008 09:30

We were going to pay her father's airfares and put him up. Now that we live at the other end of the country we pay his travel down here and let him stay.

AbbeyA · 04/10/2008 09:37

If OP really wants to go then I think your way is the best solution TSAP-pay his airfares and put him up.

twinsetandpearls · 04/10/2008 09:47

We decided against it for a number of reasons and dd father was one of them. We did what someone suggested above and moved within the uk, we were living in one of the worst places in the UK well it was no wonder we wanted to emigrate. We have now moved to somewhere in the UK where we are happy and that urge to flee the country has gone. But moving away has put a lot of strain on dp and I and we are very close to splitting up, living somewhere where you do no know anyone is hard.

froggyfroofroo · 04/10/2008 11:26

not read whole thread but have you checked this site out. its an expats forum and gives a really good insight into peoples experiance in OZ