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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To join my company's cycle to work scheme (I also work in HR) to buy a bike for my son

64 replies

Bumblelion · 02/10/2008 20:33

I have worked at my company for over 20 years and I deal now exclusively with employee's flexible benefits, i.e. we give employees an amount of money (%) on top of their salary and they can spend it as they wish and I co-ordinate their choice(s).

One of the new benefits that we are offering our employees is that they can buy a bike up to the value of £500 and the company pays the VAT on the bike and it works as a salary sacrifice in that the cost of the bike (excluding VAT) is deducted from your monthly gross pay (i.e. the employee also saves on tax and N.I.).

This is a verified scheme offered by the Inland Revenue.

... well, the company realises that not everyone can buy a bike and use it to ride to work (for example, where I work in London the company does not have facilities to store the bikes) and to that effect the idea is that all employees can buy a bike, whether they ride it to work or not.

... well my son (aged 11) has never been able to ride a bike (is very sporty but has never achieved the balance/co-ordination) but this year when he spent 2 weeks at his dads he learnt to ride a bike (borrowed off a friend).

I told him I would treat him to a bike (not Christmas/birthday present) and now my company offers this scheme.#

Ideally, I should be buying myself a bike to ride to work (whether that be to ride to the office or only to the local train station).

Do you think I am being unreasonable in saving the VAT, my own tax and N.I. in buying a bike that my son can ride.

The reason I am buying him a bike in the 'bike to work' scheme is that he has just started high school and, instead of me driving him every morning (about 5 minutes drive, 25 minutes walk), he will use the bike to get to school so in effect I am doing what the Government offers in that I will not be using my car and it helps my carbon off-setting.

My only concern is how can I explain to my HR department (in which I work) why I would be using a GT Air 2009 (BMX) bike to ride to the station?

Do you think I am cheating the 'system'?

OP posts:
Original poster
Bumblelion · 02/10/2008 21:41

... SalLikesCoffee...

I think you should give up the coffee and have something a bit stronger, because you are so rightous!!!!!!!!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
Bumblelion · 02/10/2008 21:42

... and muddleduck - I have a new name for you, but can;'t be thrown off this site, so go f**k your duck!!!

OP posts:
muddleduck · 02/10/2008 21:43

Don't understand why you are still trying to justify this.

Is the logic that it't ok to steal as long as you do something worthy with the money?

Your op asked "do you think I am cheating the system". Well yes you are.

Hope your ds enjoys the bike

Original poster
Bumblelion · 02/10/2008 21:44

He will! Thank you! and I am sure you are so rightous - fuddle fuck!

OP posts:
MascaraOHara · 02/10/2008 21:45

It wouldn't be stealing at my place though as nowhere does it specify that the bile has to be for yourself.

SmugColditz · 02/10/2008 21:45

Unless you are actually going to cycle to work, which you say you're not, you are committing fraud

jasmeeen · 02/10/2008 21:46

YANBU - hope your son enjoys the bike.

Original poster
Bumblelion · 02/10/2008 21:47

...so why does my company let me buy a bike when they know I cannot ride to work (too far to ride) and no where to park the bike).

OP posts:
SalLikesCoffee · 02/10/2008 21:47

I made the mistake of thinking you were actually wondering about whether or not to do it, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted either of our times. Am off.

Hope your son likes the bike.

Original poster
Bumblelion · 02/10/2008 21:49

Am off now too.

Bye.

... and I am NOT being unreasonable.

OP posts:
SmugColditz · 02/10/2008 21:50

"Am I being unreasonable?"

"Yes, yes you are, and dishonest too"

"No I'm not, how dare you!"

Why ask? Really, why?

SalLikesCoffee · 02/10/2008 21:50

In case you were wondering, here's the official info.

To quote: "The tax exemption only applies when an employee mainly uses the cycle and cyclists' safety equipment for qualifying journeys. A qualifying journey for an employee means a journey, or part of a journey,

  • between his or her home and workplace, or
  • between one workplace and another"
SmugColditz · 02/10/2008 21:50

"Am I being unreasonable?"

"Yes, yes you are, and dishonest too"

"No I'm not, how dare you!"

Why ask? Really, why?

MascaraOHara · 02/10/2008 21:50

thought she said she was going to ride to the train station(?) did I misread?

amidaiwish · 02/10/2008 21:51

oh get over yourselves
buy the bike

live on.

SmugColditz · 02/10/2008 21:52

It is not the company's responsibility to assume you are dishonest enough to abuse their scheme, it's your responsibility not to do it. Your argument is like saying "It's not my fault I took £10 off my friend's kitchen surface, she left it there and she knows I'm skint."

muddleduck · 02/10/2008 21:54

Thanks to the OP I've just remembered that last month was my last CTW payment so I get £50 extra in my pay this month.

Maybe I should buy ds a new bike with the extra cash

tearinghairout · 02/10/2008 21:54

Bumblelion - I have to disagree with your statement that everyone will cheat the system to their own benefit. Not true.

Why don't you just forget the scheme & buy your DS a bike, then you can sleep easy at night - a clear conscience is non-negotiable imo.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 02/10/2008 21:57

Is Bumblelion drunk? She sounds it.

hannahsaunt · 02/10/2008 22:05

Hi

I said that because it's what happened to a colleague who wanted to buy a bike for his daughter - it was made clear that this was outwith the scope of the scheme and was detailed in the not so very small print on the leaflet about the scheme.

tearinghairout · 02/10/2008 22:12

If you're thinking of buying it for DS you must clear it with your bosses first & have it all out in the open, for the reason that has already been raised - you can't afford to be perceived as having abused the system. Have your manager OK it.

If you're not prepared to have this out in the open then that proves you know it wouldn't be allowed!

nooka · 02/10/2008 22:45

It is a benefit for employees only. Not their children or anyone else. So it is fraudulent for Bumbelion to use it. I would be surprised if her directors were claiming nursery vouchers unless their scheme specifically allows it. Our is capped at 30k I think. Of course people cheat the system when they think it is to their advantage and they won't get caught, but for the person who administers the scheme to abuse it rally indefensible. I think it would be at least a disciplinary matter should she be caught out.

We had a similar scheme at work. I already ride to work, so didn't need it. I didn't even think about using the scheme for my children, although they would like new bikes. In the same way I could claim for having my eyes tested and a voucher towards my glasses. I don't because I have had to wear my glasses since I was a child, and my poor vision has nothing to do with work. I have colleagues that do, and think this is very very dishonest.

However Bumbelion was clearly looking for ideas to save her skin if she was caught buying the bike, not opinions on whether it was right to do so.

Typhoon · 02/10/2008 22:47

How are the directors at your company 'fleecing the system'? From the little you said, all it seems they are doing is merely taking advantage of something - childcare vouchers - that they are rightfully entitled to regardless of their salary level.

And the fact that you're in HR is relevant. You should be setting an example. Just because other people fleece the system doesn't make it a behaviour worth copying.

In case you haven't guessed, I think it would be unresonable for you to use this to buy your son's bike Not unless you get express permission to do so from your head of department first.

nooka · 02/10/2008 23:10

Oh, and the equipment technically belongs to the company and is leased to the employee. These are the rules:

Employees use the equipment mainly for qualifying journeys: i.e. for journeys made between the employees home and workplace, or part of those journeys (for example, to the station), or for journeys between one workplace and another

The tax exemption only applies when an employee mainly uses the cycle and cyclists' safety equipment for qualifying journeys. A qualifying journey for an employee means a journey, or part of a journey, between his or her home and workplace, or between one workplace and another, in connection with the performance of their duties of employment. So, for example, cycling to and from the station to get to work would qualify. [In this case, 'mainly' means that more than 50% of time using the cycle and safety equipment must involve a qualifying journey.

So buying a bike with this scheme which is never going to be used in the way intended is clearly fraudulent.

Oh and the scheme is not to improve health per se, it is to discourage driving (clearly not a factor for the OP).

I think that the company, the bike shop and the OP could be in trouble here. The OP because she has committed fraud, the bike shop for selling her a bike that was clearly not for her own use and therefore eligible under the scheme and the company because it has no proper method to check that the programme is being implemented properly. That of course may be an issue for the OP again, because she may be responsible as part of running the benefit schemes to put in place checks.

I am always amazed at what people will risk for the sake of a few pounds.

Original poster
Bumblelion · 03/10/2008 09:35

I apologise for my outburst last night - I had had a drink (long story, won't go there now) and ...

I have cancelled my cycle to work 'bike' order and have ordered the same bike, through the same company, but paying for it up-front and not through my company.

To be honest, I think I was being unreasonable and I was looking for someone to say that what I was trying to do wasn't wrong but, obviously, deep down, I knew it wasn't right because otherwise I would not have written this message in the 'am I being unreasonable' topic.

OP posts: