to think that, however utterly shite your childhood was, you have NO RIGHT to inflict the same on your children????

[psychomum5]

some of you here may know that I am currently undergoing CBT for driving anxiety.

and you also may know that I really had a crappy childhood.......

anyhoooo

CBT lady today had a very very tearful psycho, and we touched a little on my childhood.

she kind of knew some of it, but by no means all, and today she said that a lot of my issues had a deeper cause, so she asked specifically about what happened to me as a child to make me so controlling now.

((she said controlling as I seem to be trying to ensure my childrens safety a wee bit too much, and if something happens to shatter my illusion of safety my anxiety levels peak......hence I try to control my enviroment)).

well.................

she was very lovely. she said I am a remarkable woman to have come thro things the way I have and to be as 'grounded' as I am.

she also said that I was in the minority as many people who have been thro what I have would use it as an excuse to then inflict the same upon their children.....blaming everyone but themselves for the abuse they carry thro.

how is this true (I know this is true, but how?). the very idea is aborrhant (sp?) to me. I would NEVER put m children thro anything like what I went thro, how hateful, how simply vile.

so......why why WHY.

how can anyone honestly say it is 'ok' to do this???

I just don;t get it!!!

Is this really ok, and does it really truly happen. and if it does, do these people really blame their childhoods and so 'get away' with what they have done????

for me, I have a good role model in my MIL, and the fact that DH had a wonderful childhood, so that in itself is helpful to me. I have someone I can turn too when I find things getting tough.

I also trained in childcare, which altho did not teach me how to parent, it gave me the groundings (as did the nannying I did) to learn from.

I also knew that what I went thro was wrong!

oh, and beside all that I was raised for almost all my childhood by my aunt. I was placed in her care initially at 6mths, then 18mths, and then again fully at 2yrs.

I did still have weekend contact however with my mother and her new partner (who for ease of use I refer to as my stepfather even tho they never did marry). That went on for 5yrs, and I lived with them for around 10mths when they had my little brother....I was 8/9yrs old at that point. It was at the end of that 10mths that the abuse was discovered.

Altho my aunt never abused me herself, she was not the best person to raise me after that (I now look back and see), as she was (and still is not) empathetic nor sympathetic to my needs as a very unhappy child.

oh, and throughout this and still, my mother is schizophrenic, she is now in a permanent home/hospital, and has been for many years.........and was also periodically before she gave birth to my younger brother.

I guess I also learnt some mothering skills from my aunt, and my mother apparently was a good mum at one point, it is a great shame I have no memory of that.

now tho, like I say, I have my MIL, and several fantastic friends.........and MN

goingslowly......

one bit of advice I have been given, and that helps me, is that I cannot change those around me but I can make steps to change the way I react to them and the situations.

it is hard to follow thro with that advice, and I am still trying to do it regarding many of my family too, but it does help.

another thing that helps is cutting certain damaging people out of your life, as I had to do with certain members of my family.

My mother had a crap childhood.

So did I.

I am trying really hard to give mine a good one.

I think this is way too simplistic.
I think the fact that a therapist has talked about people blaming things on their childhood is highly prejorative for a start.

I think some people can have a life that teaches them to believe so many wrong things about themselves and the world that it takes extraordinary strength of character to overcome it. It is 'easier' to accept all that you have been taught and shown as if that is some kind of truth. Equally if you have never been treated with love and affection and respect it is extremely hard to understand how to show those affections etc to others.

I was abused from my very earliest childhood. It is my first memory - well my first few memories actually . I have actually turned out to be an amazing mother my instinct being to protect my children and give them the very opposite of my childhood. But I have huge sympathy for those who are so beaten down that they can only replicate.
Don't forget that we tend, as children, to blame ourselves and to do anything we can to excuse the nbehaviour of our parents and families. Some such children will grow up believeing themselves worthless and revoliting rather than face the fact that their parent wasn't good enough. Those children must have a very tugh time trying to be even competent parents.

I am very very plaesed for those who find the courage to face and deal withtheir childhoods. But personally I am sad that we cannot extend some sympathy to those children who loose any sense of love or respect making them incapeable of creating care and affection within their own families.
Of course I cannot forgive those who continue the cycle but neither can I totally blame them . I just think I was very very lucky

Hi. This is one close to my heart. Haven't had the time to read all the responses in the thread. Personally I suffered emotional abuse at the hands of my father, starting with him not bothering to visit my mother in hospital when I was born (I was last of 6 children)and continuing throughout my childhood basically being ignored and neglected emotionally. It wasn't till I was in my early thirties, after the birth of my first child that I sought therapy to try and figure all of this stuff out. The biggest driver for me was that I did not want to parent my child/children the way I had been parented, even subsonciously. I needed to gain self-awareness and understand the difference between what happened in the past and having responsibility for my own future, a journey I'm still on today.

Haven't read the replies, so sorry if I'm repeating something.

For you (making it personal so you see where I'm coming from) to not do the same to your children you have accepted what you went through was wrong - your response of "how is this possible" is testament to that. Not everyone can accept they went through something that was bad, that someone who was supposed to protect them didn't. Instead they carry on the abuse with their own children because it's easier than accepting what they went through was wrong. It becomes a cycle and it takes someone (like you) saying "It was right, I shouldn't have had to go through that" to break the cycle.

You are a brave and strong woman to break that cycle. I know it doesn't feel like it, but you really are, it would be far easier to pretend it never happened.

It's not just abuse that gets caught into this cycle, for example it's one of the things keeping circ alive in the US.

This thread strikes a chord

I was bullied by my father and have a toxic mother

I also have received counselling

My most important aim in life is to be a better parent to my DS and develop a good relationship with him

It isn't easy and very occasionally I worry that I am repeating behaviour patterns e.g. being a bit too controlling with DS BUT if I feel I have done wrong I apologise to DS and give him a big hug. My parents have never done this

Admitting you are wrong sometimes and lots of love are two aspects of breaking the cycle I think

D'uh! It wasn't right! That's what I meant to say.

Psycho
Your OP triggered lots in my mind.
I am currently under the community mental health team and on drugs whilst waiting for CBT. About 6 months ago I had the realisation that I needed to die so that I didn't fuck up my childrens lives the way my life has been fucked up.
I have had a muddle of a family and more and more I know that they are toxic.
Things are going to get better and with the help of the people around me DH & my sister I have come to realise that killing myself could fuck things up just as much as being here. So I might as well stay.

I think the people who perpetuate the cycle can not be blamed - they have suffered to such an extent that they no longer can see the rights and wrongs.

I am so pleased that you are getting help and support and by the end of your journey you will have achieved so much! I hope that once my journey starts properly that I too can make some progress.

bythepowerofgreyskull I'm glad you came to realise how much worse it would be without you. I lived through my mum trying to kill herself, my dad is a radiographer and suffers from "Hospital Curtain Syndrome" he'd talk about what Mum had done to herself in the next room and the very clever 5 year old heard and understood every word. It made me realise that I couldn't under any circumstances go there. I have Borderline Personality Disorder and one defining feature is self harm and attempts of suicide, it's one of the only features I don't have. In some ways it makes life hard for me because doctors and nurses use self harm and attempts of suicide as a marker to how bad things are. It's the only part of my life I feel I have full control over. I've thought about walking away and disappearing when I'm at my lowest but I know I couldn't hurt myself because however much a bad parent I am, Tink doesn't deserve that.

wow, I am utterly amazed by the responses here, and the strength some of are showing just trying to live thro the damage inflicted upon you as children while you are now trying to raise your own children.

it is fucking hard isn;t it!!

pagwatch, I was paraphrasing what my therapist said to me, and repeating that which I understood. I KNOW that there is mroe to it, but it was MY councelling sessions and so not the place to get into the why's and wherefore's........we spoke about stuff that mattered to me at that point, not what might be going on thro other peoples heads. If it had been a psychology lecture then it would not have been so simplistic I am sure.

For thoses of us here struggling to right the patterns and change them, I think we should all be proud of ourselves. We are doing the hardest job in the world of just raising a family, while at the same time struggling to heal ourselves and stay sane!

oh, and I have to say....I know that there is a thread on 'toxic parents' (I was on it too for a breif time on the very first thread, but it proved too painful for me at that point to stay), and I know that there has often been a thread about abuse in childhood, but I wasn't aware that there are so many of us just trying to do the day-to-day stuff of raise kiddies while heal ourselves. I kind of (naively I know), figured that most had done that hard councelling crap before trying to learn not to inflict it on their kiddies. I have been thinking I was doing it the wrong way round and everyone else was on the 'right road' IYGWIM.

It really doesn't matter which order you do it in, the most important step is accepting that it wasn't right and that you would never want to do that to your child. It can be a struggle if you've not dealt with it because you are having to constantly remind yourself you don't want to go there, but it's doable. I guess even if you've dealt with it it's still hard to have to live through daily and make those decisions all the time.

Psychomum

I wasn't responding directly to what you said. I was just joining the thread.

My comments were not in anyway suggesting those of us struggling shouldn't be proud of ourselves.
I just know people who have found it harder to move on from their experiences. I personally find it hard to judge them too harshly. I hate the continuation of the behaviour but i think people need to see that there is a different way to behave rather than being demonised because they have not been able to try and move on as I have.
Thats all.

bythepowerofgreyskull.
Very powerful post.
I am glad you realsed how important and powerful you are Brilliant . Good luck to you.

sorry pagwatch, I did think you were responding to me......thankyou for joining in the thread tho, nothing there to say you can't and I appreciate all opinions.

Pag I used to have a different MN identity - I felt I needed a powerful change hence the name I have had for the last few months.. what is the american phrase "fake it to make it"

when I read your name I have a mental image of one of my DCs cartoon characters hands on hips with deep booming voice

not sure pag - I have a sieve for a memory - was JinglgeyJen(previous christmas name that stuck)

Am loving the idea of a PVC outfit

I have worked for a long time with kids in care and I can already see that some of them will replicate their childhoods - especially those that have not been removed from their families in any sort of time scale to allow them to see another way.
I can only hope that they will meet good people along the way and adress their problems. Some will. Some won't.
My heart bleeds for them all.