To be narked with Granny I came across at Playgroup this morning......?

[balanomorey]

Took dd to playgroup as usual this morning.

Part of the session involves a free-for-all on bikes and scooters. There is one bike that all the little girls adore which has Barbie on the front.

DD asked on the way there if she could have the Barbie bike...stupidly, I said yes. During the bike session, I was helping in the kitchen with the washing up. DD had been in a few times to ask if she could go on the Barbie bike - I looked over to see a little girl on it and said she'd have to wait a bit for her turn. 10 mins later she comes into the kitchen again in floods of tears to say that the little girl won't let her on the bike. I leave the kitchen to console her and see the little girl on the bike with her Granny making feeble attempts to get her off so dd can have a go. Of course, she resisted the useless cajolings of the Granny and gaily went off on the bike she had been hogging for the last 20 mins.

Was a bit narked at the Granny for not being more forceful. My way of handling it would have been to physically hoik dd off the bike and explain about sharing - suffering the consequences of a tantrum as I believe that would have been the right thing to do.

Am i right or am I being unreasonable - should you remove a child in this situation and encourage sharing, especially if it's upsetting another child, or take the stance of 'i was here first - tough'?

dandelioness - I think it is relevant, in that the op wouldn't say no to her dd, but expected the granny to say no to her gd. Also as blooming says it's more difficult for the granny. She probably felt like a fish out of water as it was.

Cornsilk - But sharing communal toys is just good manners, no? And the granny wouldn't have been saying no to her gd in the same way as in no you can't play with the toy - she'd just be saying 'you've had your go, now time to share, ooh, look at that shiny toy over there ..'. But in the grand scheme of things, this incident was hardly a big deal! The granny was obviously trying to get her gc to share and it would have been perfectly reasonable for the op to ask the granny if her daughter could have a go as the bike was a favourite toy etc. Besides, not getting what you want everytime you want it is part of playgroup life and of course life in generally.

Thanks Dandelioness - the point I was trying to make was is it reasonable to expect the adult in charge of the child (irrespective of the adult's relationship to the child, they are the one responsible for steering and guiding the child whilst in their care) to encourage the child to share. Bearing in mind that the toys are there for all to play with and share, knowing that girls will be girls and Barbie bike in the be all and end all to a lot of the little ones there and knowing that dd was desparate to have a go, I think Granny should have tried harder to get her gd to give up the bike that she'd had for most of the session. I admit I made an error in saying she could have a go, but that really wasn't my reason for posting! Lets for a minute set aside these particular circumstances, in general is it fair to expect encouragement of sharing and consideration to others?

No, I know this isn't 'a big deal in the grand scheme of things', Dandelion but it bothered ME today and I thought it was a very valid point for discussion

The granny should have got her GD to take turns BUT you shouldnt have said it was ok to her, as it clearly wasnt and now you are peeved. You let her off the hook by gritting your teeth and saying it was fine, so shouldnt really be mad about it now.

It IS a valid point for discussion
What I meant by saying it's hardly a big deal, is that I don't think it was a situation where anyone was being particularly unreasonable.

Oops, sorry Dandelion!
Just want to clarify a few points here:-

• I accept I shouldn't have told dd she could have the bike - that REALLY isn't my point for posting!!!!!!!!!
• I strongly believe that the Granny should have taken full responsibility for ensuring her gd behaved appropriately and taken on the 'parent' role - surely you'd want anyone to whom you'd entrusted your dc to to do the right thing? What if in her care her gd had picked up a knife, so do you not take the knife off her because you aren't the parent?. Surely whoever you are and whatever your relationship, you have to instill good behaviour at all times - it's your responsibility
• I wasn't more forcful with the Granny as it's simply not my style - you are what you are, but what I did or didn't do shouldn't have had any bearing on the onus being on the Granny to do the right thing and be a bit more firm with her dd by recognising how upset my dd was getting. The fact that I promised dd a go on the bike, I feel is a bit irrelevant - she was upset not because I'd let her down, at 3 she's too young for that, all she could see was this little girl wouldn't give up the bike and Granny didn't help much. Eustacia - why shouldn't I be peeved - not becuase I feel the Granny p**d on my bonfire by not letting my dd have the bike ride I'd promised, she didn't know I'd promised it, did she? I'm peeved at her lack of principles and how upset that made my little girl.

balano I think you are being a bit passive.

Hovering about obviously had SOME effect, because as you say the Gran noticed. But it's your dd, therefore your responsibility to assert yourself in the situation.

I think it would have been simply dealt with by saying when the GD scooted off "oh she obviously wants it still, we'll come back for a go in five minutes". Then go back, and ASK, don't hover.

Seriously, it may not be your style but if your DD doesn't see her mum being able to be politely assertive on her behalf, how will she learn it for herself? I'm not particularly forthcoming with people either but I have learned since I've had DS that I do need to set the example

i would have taught my child the importance of sharing and therefore wouldn't be in that situation. you shouldn't miffed at Granny but at the little girl's parents who, it would appear by her hogging the bike, gets what she wants, when she wants it, no matter who else is affected. just explain to your DD that some people just can't play nice and reassure her that she, herself, isn't like that. also it is a good example for her to share her things because now she knows first hand what it feels like to be left out because of someone else's selfishness.

chefswife, obviously it's important to teach children the importance of sharing, but we are talking about toddlers here ... I don't know how old the little girl is - I think Balano's daughter is 3 - but she might be too young yet to have fully learnt any lessons of sharing her parents have taught her.

I can see your point but I think yab a it unreasonable.

The Granny may not quite have realised the significance of THE BARBIE BIKE as opposed to the other bikes that were freely available. She may also not wanted to have caused a scene, I know its a right pain to dislodge my DS from his bike when someone else is over, but I also know as a parent it is my responsibility to teach him to share. However as a Granny she just might not be up to a true toddler tantrum.

Chefswife I think you are being a bit harsh on the girls parents. DS is a big 2.5 so may look like he is about 3 to others, but needs to be told, forcefully and repeatedly when he needs to share, which lets face it, means giving up something he was enjoying for no apparent benefit. It has to be done, but to expect a young child to do it willingly is a bit of a big ask.

Chefswife they are 3!!!!! Accept some children are better at sharing than others (I am very lucky that touch wood (and hope I haven's jined myself)) ds1 is one of them. But lots of his friends are not - this is normal.

Can understand both Granny being in a tough situation and also op being p*ssed off.

Agree with Honoria though that you do need to learn to be assertive on your dd's behalf. This is something I am only just learning to do. I am pretty strict with my ds and sometimes he is pushed by another child which I would tell him off for and their mum doesn't. I am NOT knocking other parents who bring their children up in different ways that are just as valid. But I have realised that it's totally unfair to my ds to brush this under the carpet. It sends the message that it's fine for him to be pushed around but that he can't do the same. So now I will gently reprimand the other child or at least say to ds that what they did wasn't nice.

The Granny may have felt very shy and out of place-probably the last thing she wanted was to physically remove a DC from the bike and deal with a tantrum!

Don't be hard on Granny as she is only trying to help her family. Explain to your little ones that some Grannies too soft and cuddly and sometimes get it wrong. I give my mum a hard time sometimes and I shouldn't.
Teach her the old song 'I beg your pardon I didn't promise you a rose garden' Go with the flow. You did the right thing.

balanomorey - Perhaps I was unclear. I meant you shouldnt have told the Granny that everything was ok (when in fact you felt she should have told her GD to get off the bike) not that you shouldnt have told your DD. I think you are peeved because you wish you'd told the Granny what you are telling us.

omg you so need to get out more

I think it is best to assume that in a group situation unfair things happen and are not worth getting upset about.

YANBU

I would never expect another toddler to give up a toy for my ds. I would tell him it was the other toddler's turn and try to find something else for him to play with. And I would be a bit miffed if I had to drag him away from something he was enjoying because someone else was whinging.

yanbu - but probably could have been more assertive with the granny and her barbie bike hogging gd. I've noticed that some toddlers are very good at standing up for themselves, while others, expecting a sharing, caring world, need a bit of help to get their turn.

At all the playgroups I've been to we have had the rule that if you are on something it's yours, once you let go it's not.

Once ds could talk I told him to ask the child ("use your words"). Nagging me when I can't control the situation would have made me very frustrated.

After all playgroups are supposed to be about the children learning to cope in social situations.

I agree twentypence-they don't learn to cope if Mum sorts out all life's problems.

Thanks all - after a night's sleep, I can see some very valid points have been raised here and opinions are a bit split

I am on the side of the fence for encouraging sharing and consideration of others. Whether or not at 3 they are too young to grasp this or not, I'm not sure...but surely, even from an early age, you have to start instilling principles - I'm sure we all, no matter what age, discourage our kids from hitting and biting - traits that can be seen from so young. Several of you seem to think I can lead by example by being a bit more forceful and less passive - maybe at 3 she won't understand this either?? But, again, it's a good example to set and it is right to try.

I take on board the points about not wanting to cause a scene that would have been uncomfortable for Granny - after all, I acknowledge we've all been there and anything for an easy life. Granny always takes her gd to playgroup sho she's in the know about the bike - don't be thinking she's 90 with a purple rinse, she's a young-ish, mixes well Granny!!

I feel I've opened a bit of a can of worms, the principle at question was simply is it right to encourage sharing amongst young children. That is the essence of why I was narked. I still stand by the principle of sharing but maybe shouldn't have been too harsh on Granny and next time will be more vocal about my feelings.
Thanks for all your posts.
PS Eyeliner - thanks for your 'useful' post . Sorry you don't feel the principles of sharing is a valid point for discussion. Maybe it sounds trivial to you, but to me it's a basic act of human kindness that should always be encouraged.