to think that a story about babies being murdered isn't very suitable for 5 year olds?

[melpomene]

DD1 is in year 1. At school today they had an assembly and she says that a teacher told them about "a man in Egypt who killed all the boy babies". Presumably this is the story of Herod and the massacre of the innocents, although dd1 didn't recognise the name Herod when I asked if that was who it was.

So, what is the point of telling 5yos this story? It's potentially upsetting, not historically accurate, difficult for a 5yo to understand doesn't have any moral point which is applicable to them, and isn't exactly a key tenet of Christianity.

I would like to have a choice of whether to tell dd1 potentially upsetting stories like this, rather than having it foisted upon her by the school. This is a standard state primary, not a religious school.

OK, so they're supposed to have a religious element in the assembly, but wouldn't it be better to have something with a more positive message eg good samaritan or something about charity?

I didn't have a bible.

Am I deprived?

I had a book about a Russian girl who saved her brother and her homeland, does that count?

My 3 and 4 year old run about shouting 'You be Herod and I'll be Joseph and you chase me!' and shriek with laughter. They got it from the Brick Testament lego Christmas story although took me a while to work this out. To them he's a sort of comedy bogeyman.

No it's not Moses.

There are 2 different Bible stories that are getting muddled up here.

Story One Briefly, the 3 wise men visited Herod, said they were looking for a new king in Bethlehem - they had gone to the palace logically assuming that would be the place to find a baby king. Herod, fearing being usurped, asked them to come back and tell them where the new king was when they had found him. They were not daft, so did not.

So Herod had all the male babies in Bethlehem under 1 year old killed. Called "the Slaughter of the Innocents." Meanwhile Mary and Joseph had been warned of this in a dream and took the baby away to Egypt for several years until it was safe to return. (Essentially they were asylum seekers, a fact lost on many Daily Mail reading churchgoers but that's another thread.)

Not a suitable tale for 5 year olds IMO.

Story Two The Israelites had been enslaved by the Egyptians. Moses was under God's instructions to get them freed. When the Pharoah would not let them go, a series of plagues fell upon the Egyptians. The final one was the death of the first born son in every household - EXCEPT those of the Israelites who had followed a certain ritual so that the Angel of Death Passed Over their houses - the origin of the festival Passover.

This story was told in our Sundays school. My DS1 was the only boy there, and is my PFB. I was because I thought he would be scared but it all seemed to pass over him (yes pun intended).

Also agree that story is not suitable for very young children.

Yep I think its moses they are teaching still not the one for a 5 yr old

SLUR "Well while we're on fairy tales and nursery rhymes..

My dd asked what a step mother/sister was tonight, dp explained, she said.
Oh I thought it meant evil.

fair analysis I thought- "

I'm a step mother, i'm not evil. Nor are most step parents as far as i'm aware.

I don't think it's suitable at all, one of my twins(5 next week) is quite sensitive and would find that frightening. I have the same opinion regarding the Easter story so will be finding out the content before that assembly and will be pulling them out if needs be.

I am a well seasoned primary teacher myself and am fully aware the sensitivity in the way these stories are put across can vary greatly. There are plenty of other Bible stories that could be told, obviously Easter is more tricky which is why I shall be checking content before hand.

My 3 dc don't watch a lot of the Disney films after seeing 1/2 of Snow White which resulted in 3 v upset kids. Neither do they ever see the news as it's far too depressing and I don't think they are old enough(4,4 and 3)to deal with a lot of the content.

I wouldn't expose them to news stories that involved torture or boy babies being killed so why should it be different if it's a Bible story?

I sort of get your point but I agree with Zippi, children don't process this information the way adults do.

I have a friend who refuses to read Grimms fairy tales to her dd because 'they are disturbing' but, I think it's the mother who finds them disturbing, not the child. And I, too used to read the Childrens Bible, not because I was religious but because they had some good stories and some of them were quite gruesome. And children are always quite fascinated by gruesome stuff.

well if my 5yr old is anything to go by, it will have gone over their heads

mine love fairy tales and they all involve death and cruelty at some stage

Snow White anyone? "take her into the forest and kill her"

dd1 said "that isn't a nice way to behave is it mummy! [tut]"

and she is a sensitive soul

I think we analyse too much sometimes tbh

(re bibles, M&S have a fab one atm, dd1 is obsessed)

Grimms fairy tales, the bible stories - aren't they all stories of good overcoming evil? Reinforcing moral ideas for children, who always want the 'goodies' to win.

Most children have a great sense of justice and are happy when the 'baddy' is foiled or gets his/her come-uppance.

Kids are all different. Olive's dd loves Snow White, mine made me take it to the charity shop. Had a chat re Snow White a while ago with a load of other mums and there were several whose kids reacted the same way as mine.

I think those taking assemblies have to think of their whole audience. We're not talking about 8 year olds but 5 year olds, new to the school-3 weeks in and they're sitting listening to stories about babies being killed-nice

the Moses story is that when a hebrew woman gave birth to a son the child was to be killed (as per dictat of Pharaoh)

but this didnt happen

so he said all israelite sons are to be cast into the river

but they hid moses in the bulrushes and pharaohs daughter casme and then his mum brought him up as wet nurse type

thank god for Charlie and lola and peppa pig
Nuff said

The most terrifying story I had as a child was Mr Tickle. Didn't mind all the death and feet being lopped off etc in fairy stories, but the thought of his arms coming round the corner in my own house scared the hell out of me and mum had to return it. Children are weird and unpredictable. Like adults I suppose.

Easter story is a bit tricky. I told them it symbolises new life, like the spring coming and eggs etc And that really it's a happy story because all Jesus's friends though he was dead but actually he was OK. I know this isn't quite what is supposed to have happened but thought we could save exactly what is meant by the resurrection for when they are older.

My son asked me who God is the other day. He is 3 and said 'hey! God! He's in the Jesus book.' I said people have different ideas about who he is, some think of him as a sort of spirit but to me it's the name I'd be happy to give to all the mysteries of the nature and life. Not really the Christian view but he can decide for himself when he'd older. We do occasionally go to a church but has a lot to do with how nice the vicar is and the people who go. They are all aware none of us is christened and have lots of debates with the vicar about his beliefs and how mine don't quite fit - exploring is interesting but can't bring myself to believe in a lot of the words so don't say those bits. Like singing hymns though. Luckily this vicar wouldn't get into Herod etc when the children are there. They think Herod and God are made of lego anyway and that Jesus looks like a sort of Jedi made of lots of bits of stained glass.

Oh yeah I had forgotten that one.

Need to brush up on my bible study, methinks.

newforold you have the wrong end of the stick, I perhaps didn't put point clearly.

My point was that if you read fairy tales it would be a fair analysis to think step = evil. Because in fairy tales step = evil. As in cinderella, hansel and gretal, snow white etc So that my dd assumed step = evil was an understandable mistake for her to make.

I was not saying that I thought step = evil. Sheesh I'm not a monster or an idiot

The Good Samaritan was the one who didn't pass by the poor bloke who'd been beaten and robbed, but helped him.

Samaritans at the time were considered an unclean/low-caste people so the parable was more about tolerance and kindness than blood & guts...

DD loves Snow White and if I try to tell her a bowdlerised version of Little Red Riding Hood (ie the woodsman chased the wolf away) she gets very cross and starts telling me that the wolf had stones sewn into his stomach and died (wtf?? I missed that one when I was a kid!)

Not to mention the naughty step.

we had the story of cain and able in our junior school (ages 2-5 years). i was really shocked!

especailly as the teacher had no moral or conclusion to the story...

the teacher was showing off a little as there was someone from another church there and when asked if she thought is was appropriate she said 'well, they proberly see worse on eastenders'...

these (and my) children were 2- 5 years for ducksnake!

Not sure of the point of telling bible stories to children without some kind of moral or conclusion. Not when they are little. Still, so long as it wasn't the Jeffery Archer version...

slur - apologies, i completely misinterpreted your post.

No probs Newforold, mine was a badly written post